Discovery Vitality in 2016

[Napalm2880]

People just need to stop trying to cheat the systems and swipe their cards

FTFY

 

[Tinuva]

We'll just have to wait and see. I suspect they're still working with the currently supported services to flag 3rd party data so they can discard it.

Maybe they also just want to get past the storm of the people upset about the point changes, and then move on to finishing up that change. Could be any reason. However while the unsupported apps (all my apps like runkeeper ect is still linked) might work right now, it could stop working anytime in the future without warning, including the manual uploaded data.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

discovery's true motives for cutting platforms (prob the support nightmare) and how to keep using unsupported platforms.

Their motives were quite simple, their actuaries got it wrong.
Their predictions were that most people would not meet the goals after a few months, they did not take into account cheating.
The unsupported platforms are ones that allow a manual workout to be input at some point in the chain.
Take mapmyfitness for example, a user could log a workout they "did" and it would then sync through to discovery, similar case with Strava.

The actual problem came in with certain services and the cost that would be associated with it, eg cash back payouts for policies that are linked to vitality status.
When they realised that people could cheat their way into costing them money then they had to do something about it.

It really boils down to one thing, there is always someone trying to cheat a system for their own profit.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

FTFY

Lol, yeah there is always that for now but it will also change in future.
They are already working on a measurable way to see what you do in the gym.
A few students put together a NFC system in a hackathon which tracked movement and time spent in a gym and they were snapped up by discovery to work there.

So Im assuming there will be a tag in type system that will be used in future.

 

[asshat99]

In terms of editing a file it would be pretty difficult, not impossible, but there is a lot of data that would need to be added and manipulated.
People just need to stop trying to cheat the systems and get off their asses to do some exercise.

Absolutely agreed. But it is not so difficult. You could just reuse an old file, or a friends, and re-date it - e.g. find and replace all "2016-03-16" with "2016-04-04". The vitality system also seems to just use the summary data (time/distance/HR) off the TCX which is a single value to change (in addition to the dates).

I am NOT advocating this. But it is super obvious and vitality already knows about this - see their presentation where they find duplicates between husbands and wives etc (this is the super obvious way to achieve that). Vitality could insist on only supported devices - but it is trivial to then alter the file to reflect any device. It will be difficult for the fitness platforms to correct this because it would require each device to create an identity and/or encrypt the whole process. It would not be possible to update the millions of simple devices out there. It would also outrage the device users and Garmin etc would not bother to do it for someone small like vitality. We can see why vitality would love something like Apple health - all encrypted, linked to a device and difficult to migrate or alter by the user.

Ultimately the dropping of platforms is very unfair. It is almost as easy to fake data with any platform as it was with Strava. Fitbit's HR measurement quality is not great - but then neither is the apple watches'.

There are so many ways to cheat (Tinuva's point) and this is just one tiny way. Block this one and there are dozens more. I agree - just do the exercise and reap the reward - forget about the smoothies etc - they are just trimmings)!

 

[asshat99]

T
The unsupported platforms are ones that allow a manual workout to be input at some point in the chain.
Take mapmyfitness for example, a user could log a workout they "did" and it would then sync through to discovery, similar case with Strava.

Yip - for sure - but it is not thaaat much more difficult on any of the other platforms with a little know how.

Ultimately - they should allow Strava etc, but require time series data - not just summarises - to be entered. This could be checked for duplicates or similarities far more easily and require a lot more effort to circumvent.

The syncing has improved - so maybe focussing on fewer platforms has eased the load or something...

 

[Blu82]

You should note that they dropped devices as well. I currently have a Garmin Edge 200 and Garmin Swim that can only net me R100 points because they do not support heart heart rate data even though I could get up to 600 points from them per workout.

 

[asshat99]

You should note that they dropped devices as well. I currently have a Garmin Edge 200 and Garmin Swim that can only net me R100 points because they do not support heart heart rate data even though I could get up to 600 points from them per workout.

Yeah - but that is more of an across the board thing. HR was needed to get anywhere quickly under the last set of rules. (also BS though - and I have to wear that flipping strap now!)

 

[Rocket-Boy]

Yip - for sure - but it is not thaaat much more difficult on any of the other platforms with a little know how.

Ultimately - they should allow Strava etc, but require time series data - not just summarises - to be entered. This could be checked for duplicates or similarities far more easily and require a lot more effort to circumvent.

The syncing has improved - so maybe focussing on fewer platforms has eased the load or something...

It would be better if the parsed the whole file with their own custom engine rather than relying on header summaries.
Strava created an engine that does just that and will base distances and workout times on actual moving time etc rather than just assuming the information they received is correct.

There are other issues though with the current system, Im not sure if I posted here about it but here is a typical day for me when Im training for a triathlon:
early am - 10k run
lunch time - 1/1.5k swim
evening - 1/1.5hrs cycle

So due to them being separate exercises I will just get a small amount of points for it, and someone else who took a fairly long jog will probably get more points for the day.
Similarly if I run a 19min 5k its unlikely that Im going to get *any* points, which is just madness if you think about the type of effort it takes to run 5k's in that time.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

You should note that they dropped devices as well. I currently have a Garmin Edge 200 and Garmin Swim that can only net me R100 points because they do not support heart heart rate data even though I could get up to 600 points from them per workout.

Does the swim not link to the swimming compatible HR that the fenix3 and 920 use?
One of the main reasons I bought my Suunto ambit3 was that it could do HR while swimming(this was incidentally long before active rewards)

 

[Cray]

My bigggest gripe is that they have removed two categories of step rewards. 5000 steps for 50 points and 12,500 for 300 points. Before I could spend 45 minutes on the squash court at near maximum heart rater and at least get the 50 point reward for getting over 5000 steps (I have a fitbit HR :-() If i did a lot of activity more often than not I would get the 300 points for over 12,500 steps. The whole point of getting the Fitbit was so that I could get recognition for the excersise I have been doing but now it's just the same reward as some muppet swiping the turnstile at Virgin active.

 

[Blu82]

Does the swim not link to the swimming compatible HR that the fenix3 and 920 use?
One of the main reasons I bought my Suunto ambit3 was that it could do HR while swimming(this was incidentally long before active rewards)

No it does not and the so for me to get a device that delivers swimming metrics and heart rate in the Garmin eco system I am looking at the R10 499 Garmin FR920XT Tri bundle as the cheapest option.

 

[Rocket-Boy]

My bigggest gripe is that they have removed two categories of step rewards. 5000 steps for 50 points and 12,500 for 300 points. Before I could spend 45 minutes on the squash court at near maximum heart rater and at least get the 50 point reward for getting over 5000 steps (I have a fitbit HR :-() If i did a lot of activity more often than not I would get the 300 points for over 12,500 steps. The whole point of getting the Fitbit was so that I could get recognition for the excersise I have been doing but now it's just the same reward as some muppet swiping the turnstile at Virgin active.

This exactly. A 45 min squash game is a serious workout, how is it possible that the person swiping their card then walking straight out of an exit should get the same points?

 

[krycor]

Yay today I'm getting my points while getting a smoothie

 

[Rocket-Boy]

No it does not and the so for me to get a device that delivers swimming metrics and heart rate in the Garmin eco system I am looking at the R10 499 Garmin FR920XT Tri bundle as the cheapest option.

Yeah its a mess, the fenix3 is a little cheaper but hardly even worth mentioning the price difference.
The only other supported alternative is the Polar V800 with the H7 sensor but even that will cost around R7-8k

 

[Blu82]

Yeah its a mess, the fenix3 is a little cheaper but hardly even worth mentioning the price difference.
The only other supported alternative is the Polar V800 with the H7 sensor but even that will cost around R7-8k

The V800 is getting middling reviews for its swimming functionality so I will stick to my Swim for now.

 

[Claymore]

This exactly. A 45 min squash game is a serious workout, how is it possible that the person swiping their card then walking straight out of an exit should get the same points?

Please don't underestimate how much effort it is to walk to the Kauai counter and back!

 

[Claymore]

Similarly if I run a 19min 5k its unlikely that Im going to get *any* points, which is just madness if you think about the type of effort it takes to run 5k's in that time.

The other day I actually jogged on the spot for about a minute, otherwise my run would have been under 20 minutes and I'd have got no points for it.

 

[Malasius]

Hi guys, how long does it usually take for park run points to be allocated? on the website it says it can take weeks?

 

[Archer]

I went for my health screening over the weekend - my vitality age made a 4 year swing compared to last year. My vitality age was two years younger last time, now I'm two older. The only change: 4cm more around waist (82cm now) and cholesterol up by 2 (across the 5mmol/l threshold)... Note that besides cholesterol all other metrics are essentially perfect. What a joke their whole system is