SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
33,669
The Michalsons blog on this isn't very detailed, but I had to include direct marketing as it also applies to electronic communications and also touches base with the ECT Act, but doesn't apply when section 44 (ECT) is applied to the transaction. When receiving an FNB Connect promotional email it is direct marketing in these terms. Note that I have mistakenly quoted 5 days, but it should have been 10 days under the correct circumstances,

It is the CPA which needs to be looked at,

https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201409/321864670.pdf (PDF)



Do read section 19 as well.

For good measure, here is the ECT Act: https://www.gov.za/sites/default/files/gcis_document/201409/a25-02.pdf (PDF)

Reading that, some webmasters will quickly notice that their websites don't abide by the law.
Yeah I wasn't disputing the right to return goods for being unsafe or defective.

Just illustrating that I don't think the cool down period applies here, but yes I guess if his sale happened directly because of a marketing email it could apply.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
33,669
When I bought TVs from the Samsung Store last year, they opened the box right there and powered it on. We both check the screen for cracks and dead pixels. After that I signed the delivery note, then they sealed it again and I took it home. That is the way to go, and it does not take that long.
**** that for a joke.

My new toys need to arrive at my home sealed in a box for my own fetish of opening the thing I just spend many many randelas on.

Take that away and I won't buy the product from you.

And if it arrives broken, it will not be my problem.
 

Charlesjjm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
104
**** that for a joke.

My new toys need to arrive at my home sealed in a box for my own fetish of opening the thing I just spend many many randelas on.

Take that away and I won't buy the product from you.

And if it arrives broken, it will not be my problem.
It was for the office though, so not my money. But at the same time, I don't want to get to the office, only to find out that there is something wrong with it, and having to return it.
 

Charlesjjm

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
104
Didn't realise that happened. I thought opening up big TV boxes (55 inch etc.) was a rather lengthy process. I didn't check mine beforehand, but just got lucky that it was in good condition.
Nope, it does not take long, and one was a 65".
 

Puk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
144
To those who mentioned that I should have checked the TV first - the courier arrived at 16:30 and insisted that he didn't have time and that I shouldn't worry. Anyway, he would then have had to stick around for the whole time I set it up. He didn't want to and said he was late and had to leave.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
33,669
To those who mentioned that I should have checked the TV first - the courier arrived at 16:30 and insisted that he didn't have time and that I shouldn't worry. Anyway, he would then have had to stick around for the whole time I set it up. He didn't want to and said he was late and had to leave.
I'm on your side. There is no need for you to check **** in front of the courier.
 

GhostSixFour

Mafia Addict
Joined
Nov 9, 2009
Messages
12,648
Keep escalating up the ladder at FNB. I had a warranty claim on my motorcycle heated grips denied after the moegoe in the call centre logged it as "master brake cylinder" - I **** you not.

Some escalations later and hey presto, I had my claim approved.

I'm sure someone here will be able to provide naming conventions of FNB emails, then you just go looking for the people on linkedin, guess their emails using the naming convention and fire away.
 

Lupus

Honorary Master
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Messages
15,816
To those who mentioned that I should have checked the TV first - the courier arrived at 16:30 and insisted that he didn't have time and that I shouldn't worry. Anyway, he would then have had to stick around for the whole time I set it up. He didn't want to and said he was late and had to leave.
Agreed you shouldn't need to check it with the courier especially a TV.
 

Puk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
144
So, no feedback from FNB yet. I lodged three different complaints: One through FNB Connect, put my private banker on their case and one Hello Peter complaint. I work as scientific advisory support at a law firm. Should they insist I'm guilty and hold me liable for that ludicrous payment, I will ask one of the lawyers who specialise in CPA cases to take over correspondence on my behalf. These procedural processes are a schlep, but I'm in it now and will not back down until they come to their senses.
 

eg2505

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 12, 2008
Messages
15,793
So, no feedback from FNB yet. I lodged three different complaints: One through FNB Connect, put my private banker on their case and one Hello Peter complaint. I work as scientific advisory support at a law firm. Should they insist I'm guilty and hold me liable for that ludicrous payment, I will ask one of the lawyers who specialise in CPA cases to take over correspondence on my behalf. These procedural processes are a schlep, but I'm in it now and will not back down until they come to their senses.
good on you OP,
you need to show them whos Boss (you) and not pay such crazy charges when the TV was damaged by the delivery driver.

this is how it goes when people try to pass around the buck as is customary in SA,
People in SA just have a poor attitude to customer service in General, its never my problem, its somebody elses. and the onus is on you to prove it.

maybe this is why were slowly sinking as a country, we just dont think customer service is a big deal.
 

Ecco

Executive Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2007
Messages
7,537
For what its worth, I had a the same out the box failure with a 55 inch curved Samsung. I had other issues complicating the matter, however the store in question were willing to refund me for the TV.

Also to be noted, the store does not do a check to open and switch it on before delivery. I also collected the TV myself.
 

Trilkop

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
525
Easy peasy.

Tell FNB to collect the device and cancel the agreement.

Under the CPA Act you are allowed to either return the item and/or have the agreement cancelled in total.

Besides, you bought and received a product that was not as per the agreement you entered into, so your agreement is void with FNB.

There is no more such thing as an agreement and the CPA allows you to cancel any agreement, even a fixed term property lease by just giving 20 days notice.
 

Puk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 8, 2013
Messages
144
For interest's sake, refer to below remarks from the Technician and my responses in bold :

  • Without switching the TV on you can see the crack
This is subjective. I did not see the crack.

  • The customer did install the TV stands which shows me the marking of the screws
Yes, that is correct. The stands need to be installed so the TV can stand upright.

  • If you look at the packaging for this TV that section where the crack is, its protected by the Styrofoam
Perhaps. But how do you explain this:
(the exact same model TV, also protected by Styrofoam) - the customer also first noticed damage after switching on the TV, just like I did.


  • This is not out of box failure but customer negligence
There is no supporting evidence to substantiate this statement. If FNB wants to challenge it, let's challenge it under the CPA in court.

  • My findings are pressure exerted on TV which caused the screen to crack
This may be correct, but how can you prove it was me, as the customer who exerted pressure on the screen? And how can you prove that it was NOT the courier who damaged it in the 3 days the TV was driving around, unsupported, in the back of his delivery truck? How can you prove it was not damaged in the warehouse?

  • Also,found a lot of finger prints around that area of the crack
Yes, because I traced the crack with my fingers after I noticed it AFTER switching on the TV. I wanted to see where it was damaged. This is NOT proof that I exerted undue pressure on the screen.
I have a witness to prove all my assertions above. And, as I mentioned, I am willing to follow every procedural and legal channel available to prove my innocence and that I DID NOT DAMAGE THE TV myself.
 

mr_norris

Expert Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
2,179
Have you tried calling them? I see a lot of following up via email in this thread and waiting for responses, but no mention of calling. As much as FNB claim to be digital, it's still much easier calling them in most cases. You'd probably have more luck.

Also, tweeting / messaging on Facebook is useless, as every time I've gone that route I've been given a number to call.
 

MightyQuin

Honorary Master
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
13,689
When I bought TVs from the Samsung Store last year, they opened the box right there and powered it on. We both check the screen for cracks and dead pixels. After that I signed the delivery note, then they sealed it again and I took it home. That is the way to go, and it does not take that long.
Yes, but that is a salesman's job, not a courier's job....
 

Craig

Honorary Master
Joined
Feb 22, 2016
Messages
13,632
For interest's sake, refer to below remarks from the Technician and my responses in bold :​
  • Without switching the TV on you can see the crack
This is subjective. I did not see the crack.

  • The customer did install the TV stands which shows me the marking of the screws
Yes, that is correct. The stands need to be installed so the TV can stand upright.
  • If you look at the packaging for this TV that section where the crack is, its protected by the Styrofoam
Perhaps. But how do you explain this:
(the exact same model TV, also protected by Styrofoam) - the customer also first noticed damage after switching on the TV, just like I did.

  • This is not out of box failure but customer negligence
There is no supporting evidence to substantiate this statement. If FNB wants to challenge it, let's challenge it under the CPA in court.
  • My findings are pressure exerted on TV which caused the screen to crack
This may be correct, but how can you prove it was me, as the customer who exerted pressure on the screen? And how can you prove that it was NOT the courier who damaged it in the 3 days the TV was driving around, unsupported, in the back of his delivery truck? How can you prove it was not damaged in the warehouse?
  • Also,found a lot of finger prints around that area of the crack
Yes, because I traced the crack with my fingers after I noticed it AFTER switching on the TV. I wanted to see where it was damaged. This is NOT proof that I exerted undue pressure on the screen.
I have a witness to prove all my assertions above. And, as I mentioned, I am willing to follow every procedural and legal channel available to prove my innocence and that I DID NOT DAMAGE THE TV myself.
Wtf would you damage a new TV anyway? You just bought it chances are you'll treat it very gently in case of sht like this. They are being dcks.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
33,669
For interest's sake, refer to below remarks from the Technician and my responses in bold :​
  • Without switching the TV on you can see the crack
This is subjective. I did not see the crack.

  • The customer did install the TV stands which shows me the marking of the screws
Yes, that is correct. The stands need to be installed so the TV can stand upright.
  • If you look at the packaging for this TV that section where the crack is, its protected by the Styrofoam
Perhaps. But how do you explain this:
(the exact same model TV, also protected by Styrofoam) - the customer also first noticed damage after switching on the TV, just like I did.

  • This is not out of box failure but customer negligence
There is no supporting evidence to substantiate this statement. If FNB wants to challenge it, let's challenge it under the CPA in court.
  • My findings are pressure exerted on TV which caused the screen to crack
This may be correct, but how can you prove it was me, as the customer who exerted pressure on the screen? And how can you prove that it was NOT the courier who damaged it in the 3 days the TV was driving around, unsupported, in the back of his delivery truck? How can you prove it was not damaged in the warehouse?
  • Also,found a lot of finger prints around that area of the crack
Yes, because I traced the crack with my fingers after I noticed it AFTER switching on the TV. I wanted to see where it was damaged. This is NOT proof that I exerted undue pressure on the screen.
I have a witness to prove all my assertions above. And, as I mentioned, I am willing to follow every procedural and legal channel available to prove my innocence and that I DID NOT DAMAGE THE TV myself.
Is this technician from Samsung? Or from FNB?

Also even with their argument of someone running a finger along it....if it breaks doing that then it's a PIECE OF **** not the customer being neglicent. My TV's have been hit by balls and reasonable force many a time and none of them have been cracked ever.

I always knew curved screens were a kak idea, but this certainly wasn't one of them.
 

SauRoNZA

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 6, 2010
Messages
33,669
Have you tried calling them? I see a lot of following up via email in this thread and waiting for responses, but no mention of calling. As much as FNB claim to be digital, it's still much easier calling them in most cases. You'd probably have more luck.

Also, tweeting / messaging on Facebook is useless, as every time I've gone that route I've been given a number to call.
If the technician is from FNB and not from Samsung it might be worth giving Samsung a call as well to support the fact that this may be a well known issue.

Maybe even have it swopped out under warranty.
 

bratwurst

Expert Member
Joined
Oct 15, 2008
Messages
3,825
How do TVs or screens in general crack when they in box surrounded by styrofoam? I also once received a cracked 27 inch Dell. It was a very fine crack. When I investigated the box there was no sign of abuse. Needles to say, Dell exchanged the screen within 24 hours.
 

Trilkop

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Messages
525
For interest's sake, refer to below remarks from the Technician and my responses in bold :​
  • Without switching the TV on you can see the crack
This is subjective. I did not see the crack.

  • The customer did install the TV stands which shows me the marking of the screws
Yes, that is correct. The stands need to be installed so the TV can stand upright.
  • If you look at the packaging for this TV that section where the crack is, its protected by the Styrofoam
Perhaps. But how do you explain this:
(the exact same model TV, also protected by Styrofoam) - the customer also first noticed damage after switching on the TV, just like I did.

  • This is not out of box failure but customer negligence
There is no supporting evidence to substantiate this statement. If FNB wants to challenge it, let's challenge it under the CPA in court.
  • My findings are pressure exerted on TV which caused the screen to crack
This may be correct, but how can you prove it was me, as the customer who exerted pressure on the screen? And how can you prove that it was NOT the courier who damaged it in the 3 days the TV was driving around, unsupported, in the back of his delivery truck? How can you prove it was not damaged in the warehouse?
  • Also,found a lot of finger prints around that area of the crack
Yes, because I traced the crack with my fingers after I noticed it AFTER switching on the TV. I wanted to see where it was damaged. This is NOT proof that I exerted undue pressure on the screen.
I have a witness to prove all my assertions above. And, as I mentioned, I am willing to follow every procedural and legal channel available to prove my innocence and that I DID NOT DAMAGE THE TV myself.
These guys are doing what they are being told to do. F**k the client around, maybe he/she will take responsibility and we will win this one.

Nobody will ever buy or enter into any agreement to buy any TV that will break or crack when pressure is applied when being taken out of the box. Obviously with a 55 or 65" TV there will be some sort of pressure when taking it out, lifting or placing it.

Fact is, out of the box, this is not what you wanted to buy and the agreement is done and dusted. Tell them if they want the agreement to continue, to replace the television or fix it in the condition you expect it to be.

Another problem they have is that they cannot say it is you. It could have been damaged when shipped from the supplier to the courier or even by the courier when shipped to you. In this event, this is also not your problem and force majeure comes into play in your agreement. If they deliver a broken TV, you cannot fulfill the agreement, unless of course, if the courier opened the TV and checked it in your presence.

Send them a notification of the condition of the TV when you took it out of the box and tell them you are cancelling the agreement under the NCA if they do not want to repair or replace it.

If they still come with issues, tell them to serve you with court documents if they want to get a judgment, and go see an attorney who will defend you in court. I highly doubt they will go to court.
 
Last edited:
Top