Do rugby refs cheat, are they affected by personal bias or are they just blind?

[Eonblack]

I think We are all just playing for spek and boentjies

 

[LancelotSA]

I think We are all just playing for spek and boentjies

...and by that do you mean we should all just keep quiet and not express our dissatisfaction at numerous decisions that directly cost a South African team a win?

Seeing as though you appear to have a differing view on the matter perhaps you can explain how the try was given by the TMO? Does he perhaps have a smaller monitor which meant he could not see the line and Kankowski's hand? For now then we will just ignore the horrific on field decisions and assume the ref was just unsighted in ALL those instances.

 

[Sting]

Even Bryce Lawrence had a better game!!!

 

[GreGorGy]

Even Bryce Lawrence had a better game!!!

Ouch! Nasty! True

 

[LancelotSA]

Good to see the Durban media has not just let it slide but have made the feelings of the coach, I assume the players, and most definitely the fans, known :

Unfortunately we all know full well that this still won't change the result and more importantly because of the toothlessness of the IRB will result in very little censure for the ref.

 

[milomak]

And while I am bitching another rugby rule that needs to be looked at.... penalty advantage when you are 5m out from the opposition line! When is advantage over? The only way to cross the advantage line is to score a try! Earlier in the game the Sharks held the 'Tahs out for what seemed like ages on their line under a penalty advantage, the 'Tahs eventually passed the ball back, a player fumbled and the ref called them all the way back for the penalty 5m from the Sharks line! You should get something like three phases before your advantage is over!!

this ****s me off to no extents. i swear sometimes it can seem like 5 minutes passes and then the ref decides to go back to the original infringement. i mean wtf?

 

[phoneJunky]

Ja, the Sharks game was a shocker. But in last years tri-nations we got the better of some dodgy decisions as well - now one South African team is on the receiving end, hopefully not the South African team.

 

[ToxicBunny]

yeah, we did get the better of some dodgy decisions,

But not decisions that would CLEARLY have altered who won or lost a match..

 

[cr@zydude]

Here's my take on rugby ref's the laws are complicated and as much as they try to apply the laws correctly their personally take on a situation will always affect their decision. ANother factor not often taken into account is the passive intimadation factor. I'm not talking about when captians 'talk' to the ref, that **** must stop, but that most ref's are naturally biased towards the team seen as 'better'. This is often seen in football cup competitions, where a 'small' team is far less likely to get a penalty against a 'big' team. This isn't really cheating, but the ref knows just what and upset it will be if a big team is knocked out due to his call, and feels subconcios pressure.

Just my take on it, didn't see the Sharks game.

 

[MielieSpoor]

Just my take on it, didn't see the Sharks game.

you didn't miss anything either. as always, they just can't take it when they loose...

 

[Mephisto_Helix]

Ja, that's why all supporters have said as much huh ..... your involvement with refs (whatever that is) has shown you up before, so all your blah blah blah is exactly that.

 

[The_Techie]

And while I am bitching another rugby rule that needs to be looked at.... penalty advantage when you are 5m out from the opposition line! When is advantage over? The only way to cross the advantage line is to score a try!

8.1 ADVANTAGE IN PRACTICE

(a) The referee is sole judge of whether or not a team has gained an advantage. The referee has wide discretion when making decisions.

(b) Advantage can be either territorial or tactical.

(c) Territorial advantage means a gain in ground.

(d) Tactical advantage means freedom for the non-offending team to play the ball as they wish.

Hope that answers your question.

Now, if only the referees could be consistent... I do agree that the Sharks should have won, though, before I'm on the receiving end of Durban's fury

 

[LancelotSA]

that most ref's are naturally biased towards the team seen as 'better'.

Yeah, Smit alluded to this with his comments about the rub of the green just not seeming to go your way when you team is on a losing streak. But this would explain the ref favouring the "stronger" team when it comes to collapsing scrums etc but how the hell should this attitude affect a call on whether a penalty try should be given and whether a hand is under a ball when a TMO reviews a try. It should be called as it is seen. I agree with the Tribune on the fact that the ref just did not have the balls to make the call for a penalty try!

Hope that answers your question.

Now, if only the referees could be consistent... I do agree that the Sharks should have won, though, before I'm on the receiving end of Durban's fury

It does state the law but it pretty much confirms what I was alluding to and that is that it is really at the ref's discretion. It does, however, still beg the question as to when advantage would ever be called as over when attacking 5m from the try line?

It seems that the only time would be if the attacking team made a error (a knock on etc) or scores a try. Otherwise the refs seem to be happy to just let the attacking team batter away for minutes on end. Surely after two or three phases in the same spot it should be concluded that they had "tactical advantage" as they were free to play they ball as they wished a number of times already!

 

[sand_man]

I agree with the Tribune on the fact that the ref just did not have the balls to make the call for a penalty try!

He had the balls to send Goode to the sin bin for slowing down the ball when the Tahs were on the Sharks goal line, thought that was a bit over the top. Also he penalized Jannie for obstruction at the final lineout which was another ballzie call at the Sharks expense. I thought he would have had the balls to give the penalty try...

It was also interesting to here Kaplan and Bryce discussing Nonus spear tackle in the Cheetahs game. Bryce consulting with Kaplan said he would have a word with Nonu regarding the dangerous tackle. Kaplan said, "more than that, that's a card"....

 

[Morgoth]

well it has been said a few times, impressing the ref while playing the game is part of the game.

 

[--MVP--]

We were robbed

I agree that all refs have a certain degree of "humanness" about them, and cant be CPU generated dummies. But surely professional training and guidance should be able to iron out these human flaws; (bias; favoring the stronger opponent etc.). The refs just arent highly skilled anymore. Think about it, every single rule change through the years is making the ref look at more things, police certain aspects, and dish out cards whenever he feels. Exception to the TMO but feck they cant even get that right. Giving added authority to "ref ASSistants" does not work, I cringe whenever some **** who promised his mom he would be on TV steps on the playing field with his "flag out"..

Did anyone hear during the game, the ref assistant squeaking to the ref through the mike thingys that, "11 just kicked the ball away" after a penalty had been awarded to the 'tahs on the opposite side of the field..This was directly after we had just been given two yellow cards!!

 

[sand_man]

http://www.sport24.co.za/Content/Ru...9-03-2010-10-53/Local_refs_asking_for_trouble

 

[Devill]

Even though the sharks should never have allowed themselves to "need" those calls the ref was blatantly in the wrong and I hope he gets a fine/suspension.

 

[AMG133]

Im glad there is another thread for this topic seeing as I didnt want to pollute the S14 thread even though it is a valid point that the Ref on Saturday was not in the right frame of mind.

Its good that you bring up the TV ref incident as many are just focused on the 2 bad calls right at the end. When these laws came out i.e using tv footage, it clearly stated that there must
be visual proof of the ball being grounded legally, bottom line is it must be seen. There is no way in hell that any angle provided us with a view of the ball being grounded, it was shown grounded
before the player went over the try line but as he went over he was turned and the ball could not be seen at all since there were a number of players trying to save the try. To merely assume it is a
try because the player was over the line is outrageous! Because thats what the numbnut Aussie commentators were doing when the replays were being shown!

I dont need to bring up the last 2 calls as its been covered already in this thread, I mean even the biast commentators said at the end that we were robbed... that tells alot!

I think SANZA or IRB should have some sort of referee's panel like the English FA have to punish referee's for things like these because they are not error's, there are blatant mistakes
either purposely or due to lack of knowledge of the rules for the game, obviously the side affected wont get any rewards but atleast we know that Ref's in future will be trying their best to
get decisions right the first time round and not thumbs suck.

Its good that Plum came out guns firing in the media, John Smit was abit too politically correct for my liking.

 

[phoneJunky]

The other countries already think we moan to much. They say we think that the whole world is conspiring against us. It is not always that the refs are trying to cheat SA teams out of victory. It just happens sometimes that you get a wrong call - even though many people think that the ref made correct decisions (not us in SA though). If we loose we will always look at something that is wrong with the processes, it is the natural reaction. We can't change the outcome anymore, so we should just focus on the games at hand.