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Question of the Day: What is your preferred luxury car brand?
Sign up with GoogleDo you believe the NHI is a good thing for South Africa?
- Thread starter Bradley Prior
- Start date
The assistance should be in creating job opportunities. Simply getting someone else to pay (not free) will put more and more people in this boat just like every country that has ever implemented socialism extensively.
This isnt even raising the inefficiencies and extra bureaucracy it will create. Imagine all healthcare like SA public healthcare that's what we will get for similar rate to what we pay now - no doubt. When I lived in the UK/Canada, I would save my checkups for when I'm down in SA due to the far superior healthcare. Note Canada is suppose to have one of the best healthcare systems in the world (according to experts) what a pile of garbage. For sure if you want a free ride it's the best system which is only going downhill like the NHS due to lack of funds due to diminishing budgets and more patients - socialism for you in a nutshell.
SeRpEnT
Executive Member
So at current poll totals we have:
- 22 just plain dumb-phux on this forum.
- 18 clueless idiots
- 15 smartasses who can run a thread on this topic for years providing their expert input...
James Bond007
New Member
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- May 15, 2013
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- 7
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Only the poor will believe that the NHI is a blessing because the ANC broke the public hospitals. This system will never work in a society where only a few people contribute to tax.
NHI will be good. approx 30% of Western companies will leave. More people will become discontent. less available money for luxuries all while NHI will not improve general health care as the burden will just be to great.
NHI is not socialism, implemented correctly, it is an effective tool to control crazy medical industry price gouging. Covered by an NHI that really works overseas, the liberating feeling is real, seeing how that system is run, having drug companies routinely complain about the cut throat negotiating of the nhi board, fills me with warm fuzzy feelings.
When was the last time that discovery health gave us a inflation relates increase? Or better yet, a cash bonus because they made too much money?
We need to fight for NHI to work for us. System has to be fair, just and affordable. Not free and corrupt and run into the ground.
When was the last time that discovery health gave us a inflation relates increase? Or better yet, a cash bonus because they made too much money?
We need to fight for NHI to work for us. System has to be fair, just and affordable. Not free and corrupt and run into the ground.
DreamKing
Honorary Master
1) nhi is socialism, in fact the idea of insurance is already socialism.
2) nhi never can implement "correctly", you can see the same problem has happened in any insurance industry.
3) the effective tool to control crazy private health care pricing is the best and effective low-cost public health care system.
By your narrow definition, private health insurance is also socialism, the healthy subsidise the sick, NHI has a much wider reach, hopefully a large enough tax base which we do not have right now. Implemented properly, it can and does work. There are places where successful implementation has brought down costs and given citizens real decent coverage and given real beneficial outcomes.
DreamKing
Honorary Master
insurance is socialism, no matter you like it or not.
you have enough money (tax base), but why you can't receive enough taxes you supposed to have? do you know why? you can ask anc.
you think the nhi can implement "properly", that is the same logic as anc can rectify their own.
There's a difference between a good idea (conceptually) and a practical idea.
This is certainly not the latter and is simply window dressing for the ANC to act like they are serving the needs of the people while stealing yet another fund blind.
This is certainly not the latter and is simply window dressing for the ANC to act like they are serving the needs of the people while stealing yet another fund blind.
Capitalism has no fixed definition. Socialism barely has one.
That's most likely because it isn't.
LCBXX
Honorary Master
Adrian Gore said the NHI is a good thing.
He doesn't say that anymore..
He doesn't say that anymore..
Sounds just like medical aids and Health Maintenance Organizations. They'll have no problem providing only the cheapest least effective treatment and putting caps on what they pay, leaving you to die or go bankrupt trying to stay alive. Private hospitals will happily bleed you of every last cent, then tell you to f*** off and die.
Well without socialised health care businesses decide you should die when there is no more money to be extracted from you. If you have a good prognosis, but you're poor you'll be left to get worse and then die while a richer person with no chance of survival gets to use medical resources.
Numerous people die in the US because they can't afford treatment. That must mean that private health care doesn't work.
Private care doesn't work better. Globally there is a shortage of doctors and nurses. The only reason the better off South Africans have relatively quick access to medical services is because those services don't serve that many people. If the population was more affluent wait times would become substantially longer even if the entire system was private.
now05ster
Expert Member
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He does. Check the press briefing. He says the current implementation is not doable.
I used to work in it. So I know it well. I helped to keep high standards and made doctors, other staff work to a high standard too, but admin staff is no good and some people became offended.
It is lacking but the government is in control of the NDOH and the buck stops with them. The sort of universal health care the UN envisions is provisioned in our state health care system. Remember also that we also have a municipal health care system as well, for example City of Cape Town also runs some clinics.
People should be free to use their after tax money any way they please and if they spend it on healthcare they should be able to. Gov doesn't want that.
Medical aids are also terrible and health care costs rise but that can't be solved via nationalisation.
Geoff.D
Honorary Master
Ultimately it will be a good thing if there was an effective and well-functioning public health system to catch those that fall through the cracks. But, and it is a very big but, not one run by the current government that is totally focussed on stealing everything they can lay their hands on.
Yes he overdoes this. Socialism exists everywhere. Eg public funded roads, police, fire department and armed forces.
Yes that happens in any insurance scenario.
We have the state health care system.
One can't build things on hope. Rationally you don't have a large enough tax base. Years of racist policies in the past (under the Nats) and racist policies under the ANC have contributed to this. Years of corruption, brain drain, demoralisation, infighting and all the other problems. With a huge portion of the tax payer base being government employees and others on grants, we don't have a tax base which can fund the NHI, unless you do away with everything else I suppose.
If people were kind to each other, if we sang Kumbaya, then we'd all have success and cure for cancer by the year 2000.
It does not work because there is no money. Staff in hospitals need years of difficult training and people don't want to work for peanuts after that. Medicine is expensive. Equipment is expensive. It's usually paid for in US Dollars which the ZAR is getting weaker every year against. Most meds and prosthetic devices (eg cardiovascular stents, artificial joints, etc) are imported while most meds are developed overseas and cost money. Already SA enjoys a lot of developing world pricing. The same drug in SA made by the same company costs less in SA than in say North America and even EU, never mind generics. So SA already enjoys a big handout from the developed world.
In these places, eg the EU and UK, they still have private medical insurance where you can be see private hospitals (my non South African EU physician aunt would work in one) if you want better outcomes.
In SA they plan to control i.e. remove the choice from people as to their own healthcare and as healthcare is a fundamental human right the gov here is breaching the UN's own charter here.
What SA is doing is pure tyranny. We have fatcats in gov who are literally playing with peoples' lives and enablers such as yourself who either don't understand things or disingenously or cynically promote this terrible endeavour. SA is not able to run a piss up in a brewery, yet you believe despite all evidence to the contrary here in this one field there will be an exception. Except people will die because of this. Don't play with other peoples' lives and what they do with their lives, how they spend their after tax money and how medical practitioners who devoted years of hard study, how they may or may not work.
What's next? Lack of safe transport so everyone must sell their better car to get the cheapest of the cheap for everyone? Homes with more than one bedroom are also an injustice. A family could stay in each bedroom, there are people living in shacks, they all deserve housing.
I think in healthcare there is a disconnect.
Like it or not, you need a long time and experts to train good doctors, pharmacists, techs, nurses, physios, paramedics, etc. This takes money. Healthcare to be at the standard the academics want and that is world class standard, needs people who have the knowledge, skills, training, dedication and above all backup i.e. if I order a HRCT scan of your chest I should not have to wait 6 months and go through various motivations. But that's expensive. To have radiologists, radiographers, isotopes, consumables, serviced equipment and up to date equipment, that costs lots and lots of money and who wants to compromise on their health care? Do you want radiologists who have a 30% pass mark who maybe fail to recognise 20% of things they look at? Do you want your pulmonary embolism missed 20% of the time? I doubt it. But that requires MONEY, lots of it.
People say healthcare is expensive but then they also want the best. It's supposed to be cheap, but world class, meanwhile they'll go into debt to buy a BMW, and ok sure, for that they'll pay.
Like it or not, you need a long time and experts to train good doctors, pharmacists, techs, nurses, physios, paramedics, etc. This takes money. Healthcare to be at the standard the academics want and that is world class standard, needs people who have the knowledge, skills, training, dedication and above all backup i.e. if I order a HRCT scan of your chest I should not have to wait 6 months and go through various motivations. But that's expensive. To have radiologists, radiographers, isotopes, consumables, serviced equipment and up to date equipment, that costs lots and lots of money and who wants to compromise on their health care? Do you want radiologists who have a 30% pass mark who maybe fail to recognise 20% of things they look at? Do you want your pulmonary embolism missed 20% of the time? I doubt it. But that requires MONEY, lots of it.
People say healthcare is expensive but then they also want the best. It's supposed to be cheap, but world class, meanwhile they'll go into debt to buy a BMW, and ok sure, for that they'll pay.
NoStepOnSnek88
Senior Member
@Bradley Prior why are the voting results anonymous?