Do you know any one who has emigrated??

[Bellerophon86]

I'm really considering moving over to London. How difficult/easy is it to settle in over there? What's some of the biggest challenges I'll encounter? I'm 28, single and have a 2/3 friends there so I think i'll be ok. I've never been though, so there a fear of the unknown.

 

[bokdrol]

I'm really considering moving over to London. How difficult/easy is it to settle in over there? What's some of the biggest challenges I'll encounter? I'm 28, single and have a 2/3 friends there so I think i'll be ok. I've never been though, so there a fear of the unknown.

As a young single person, you will find London very stimulating and exciting. Loads of free things to do. We lived there for five years. I love the city. The only unpleasant things are the grey skies and the Brits themselves (but fortunately the city is so cosmopolitan so you won't find too many of them). You will eat well.

 

[Gibson]

Interesting thread. I've been researching the idea of moving to Australia over the last couple of weeks

For anyone who does happen to post their (or friends) experiences of moving overseas, any chance you could be specific about what made you return or stay?

Been in Australia (Melbourne) for 4 months now, and have to say the lifestyle here makes me think of staying. It's just weirdly civilized and polite (to the point where everyone thanks the bus driver when they get off), and the relaxed attitude is just staggering (I'm still not used to my flatmates leaving the door open, but it's pretty much the norm in my suburb).

Expenses are a lot higher than in S.A, although certain things like groceries and cellphone contracts are a bit cheaper; but even my awful tutoring salary (which is ridiculously high by S.A standards) manages to cover everything and allows me to save, so it's definitely very livable.

The only real downside is being away from friends and family, it's pretty tough to restart a life when your nearing the big 30, but luckily through my studies I'm slowly meeting people and conferences should give me a chance to see some of my mates once or twice a year.

 

[zippy]

I'm really considering moving over to London. How difficult/easy is it to settle in over there? What's some of the biggest challenges I'll encounter? I'm 28, single and have a 2/3 friends there so I think i'll be ok. I've never been though, so there a fear of the unknown.

London is easier to settle in because a bigger proportion of the people you work with are also from abroad.

The downside is that its expensive. A decent flat is going to cost you £900 rent minimum and then you also need to pay council tax of about £130 or so.

You can slum it by living in a house-share and maybe half the costs, but then you need to happy sharing your space with someone.

Monthly tube ticket for 2 zones is about £120 at least. Forget about a car in London, unless you leave at least zone 4 and further and even then you still need the monthly tube ticket.

You need to clear min £1800 a month if you want be independant. And that might be too low. I recall getting by without too much trouble on about £2k a month.

Unlike Bokdrol, I actually got to like Brits. Well the ones who live outside of London anyway.

PS. Stay the heck away from Hackney. Its a toilet

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

A £200k mortgage in the UK will cost between £1200 and £1500

Mortgage rates in the UK range from 2.8% to 3.98% depending on your deposit and how you choose to mix that with fixed and variable rates.

These are very low rates. This is why you cant really compare only the purchase price. You also need to factor in the affordability of the mortgage.

Yes. for the same price you cant getter bigger and better house in house in SA. Nobody is disputing that. But more of your take home pay goes to pay the loan off in SA than it does in the UK.

I call bull. If you are doing the same job and living in a similar sized and matching house in both countries then NO WAY is more of your income as a proportion going towards your home loan here in S.A.

In fact far less as a proportion would go towards your home loan.

 

[Sinbad]

I call bull. If you are doing the same job and living in a similar sized and matching house in both countries then NO WAY is more of your income as a proportion going towards your home loan here in S.A.

In fact far less as a proportion would go towards your home loan.

Ever lived in the UK?

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Ever lived in the UK?

Yes although I admit not recently. And its absurd to claim that as a rule you earn so much more that you would pay less as a proportion of your income for a similar house to what you would live in here. Not for doing the same job assuming you have some skills. There's no way the higher salaries or lower interest rates offset the higher cost of property sufficiently to back up that claim.

 

[Sinbad]

Yes although I admit not recently. And its absurd to claim that as a rule you earn so much more that you would pay less as a proportion of your income for a similar house to what you would live in here. Not for doing the same job assuming you have some skills. There's no way the higher salaries or lower interest rates offset the higher cost of property sufficiently to back up that claim.

I invoiced GBP 125k in 9 months while I was there. So yeah, it more than offset the cost of property...

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

I invoiced GBP 125k in 9 months while I was there. So yeah, it more than offset the cost of property...

Well done. Are you suggesting that's typical ?

 

[Sinbad]

Well done. Are you suggesting that's typical ?

In my field, yup. There were a bunch of us earning similar.

 

[diabolus]

Well when i got a job offer for the Netherlands last year i had to do alot of cost calculations, i found this site quite valuable:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

Example:

You would need around 4,025.78£ (73,673.05R) in London to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 23,000.00R in Pretoria (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Consumer Prices Including Rent Index.

Consumer Prices in London are 133.72% higher than in Pretoria
Consumer Prices Including Rent in London are 220.32% higher than in Pretoria
Rent Prices in London are 544.19% higher than in Pretoria
Restaurant Prices in London are 153.65% higher than in Pretoria
Groceries Prices in London are 130.88% higher than in Pretoria
Local Purchasing Power in London is 38.45% lower than in Pretoria

You would need around 6,023.71A$ (60,171.70R) in Melbourne to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 23,000.00R in Pretoria (assuming you rent in both cities). This calculation uses our Consumer Prices Including Rent Index.

Consumer Prices in Melbourne are 124.46% higher than in Pretoria
Consumer Prices Including Rent in Melbourne are 161.62% higher than in Pretoria
Rent Prices in Melbourne are 300.58% higher than in Pretoria
Restaurant Prices in Melbourne are 124.08% higher than in Pretoria
Groceries Prices in Melbourne are 151.39% higher than in Pretoria
Local Purchasing Power in Melbourne is 15.20% lower than in Pretoria

You can easily see what things cost and where you will get nailed (and how much you should at least earn to match your lifestyle in SA). Things that was throwing me off :

1. The actual salary they offer, while translated from euro -> rand was alot, it was alot less in terms of what i can do in europe with it as opposed to doing the exact same thing in SA.
2. Taxes and Pension : You actually need to be a CITIZEN to benefit from alot of these things. In the Netherlands you do get a "tax break" while you're not a citizen, but you don't mysteriously get all the benefits that normal citizens get. Not sure how the UK works with this, but i still had to budget additional for medical aid + pension (same we do here) while paying 30% tax (citizens pay a higher tax rate, more like 40%-50%, not sure).
3. The actual job was/is a step down, with limited promotion/increases ability (Europeans don't seem to be big on annual increases like in SA, usually an increase implies a promotion) , one can see it as a "stepping stone" , but i haven't felt that negative about my current circumstances to want to do that.

 

[cguy]

Well done. Are you suggesting that's typical ?

I also earn much more than I would be able to earn in SA (scientific software developer) - way more than what is propotional to US or UK expenses/COL. While I wouldn't call this typical (in the UK - in the US it is definitely typical), the income ceilings are simply much higher, allowing the upper percentiles of a given field to live very well in comparison to SA.

 

[bwana]

Well when i got a job offer for the Netherlands last year i had to do alot of cost calculations, i found this site quite valuable:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

Example:


You can easily see what things cost and where you will get nailed (and how much you should at least earn to match your lifestyle in SA). Things that was throwing me off :

1. The actual salary they offer, while translated from euro -> rand was alot, it was alot less in terms of what i can do in europe with it as opposed to doing the exact same thing in SA.
2. Taxes and Pension : You actually need to be a CITIZEN to benefit from alot of these things. In the Netherlands you do get a "tax break" while you're not a citizen, but you don't mysteriously get all the benefits that normal citizens get. Not sure how the UK works with this, but i still had to budget additional for medical aid + pension (same we do here) while paying 30% tax (citizens pay a higher tax rate, more like 40%-50%, not sure).
3. The actual job was/is a step down, with limited promotion/increases ability (Europeans don't seem to be big on annual increases like in SA, usually an increase implies a promotion) , one can see it as a "stepping stone" , but i haven't felt that negative about my current circumstances to want to do that.

Does this site take into account items like schooling, medical aid, insurance, security…?

 

[diabolus]

Does this site take into account items like schooling, medical aid, insurance, security…?

All the detail are there, they break it down in all the gory details, right down to the cost of milk or internet or transport etc.

 

[bwana]

Yes, all the detail is there they break it down in all the gory details.

It doesn't look like it does to me. I did a comparison between PE and Folkstone, UK and there's no mention of the above that I can see. By my calculations that's R15k that I wouldn't have to find every month right off the bat.

 

[diabolus]

It doesn't look like it does to me. I did a comparison between PE and Folkstone, UK and there's no mention of the above that I can see. By my calculations that's R15k that I wouldn't have to find every month right off the bat.

It depends on the city. Alot of the info is coming from locals/public. So a small town might not have all the detail.

 

[Bellerophon86]

Using numbeo.com and comparing Pretoria and London was quite funny. You pay more in London for Transportation, Utilities, Clothing, Rental, Food...only thing you more for in Pretoria is internet

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Using numbeo.com and comparing Pretoria and London was quite funny. You pay more in London for Transportation, Utilities, Clothing, Rental, Food...only thing you more for in Pretoria is internet

Don't take the people trying to suggest you have a better quality of life in the Uk as a middle classed person too seriously. It goes against all the available evidence. You have to get very creative and dishonest with the variables to come to such a conclusion.

The Uk has a lot of pros and S.A a great many cons but quality and affordability of life is very one sided in SA favour.

 

[Sinbad]

Don't take the people trying to suggest you have a better quality of life in the Uk as a middle classed person too seriously. It goes against all the available evidence. You have to get very creative and dishonest with the variables to come to such a conclusion.

The Uk has a lot of pros and S.A a great many cons but quality and affordability of life is very one sided in SA favour.

In your uninformed opinion.
I had MUCH more disposable income in the UK than I have here. Therefore, affordability was better there. Not so?

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

In your uninformed opinion.
I had MUCH more disposable income in the UK than I have here. Therefore, affordability was better there. Not so?

We're talking about the affordability of life for the middle classed , average person. Specific, unique circumstances can impact the results either way, but they don't a general trend make.