Do you know any one who has emigrated??

[Jehosefat]

In your uninformed opinion.
I had MUCH more disposable income in the UK than I have here. Therefore, affordability was better there. Not so?

Twice as much disposable income when things cost 3 times as much is lower affordability. So you can't just look at the currency value of the disposable income, you have to take into account the relative purchasing power as well.

 

[Sinbad]

Twice as much disposable income when things cost 3 times as much is lower affordability. So you can't just look at the currency value of the disposable income, you have to take into account the relative purchasing power as well.

DVDs cost the same. Internet and cable TV was cheaper. Travel was cheaper. Clothes cost the same. Healthcare was cheaper. Books were cheaper.

 

[diabolus]

Using numbeo.com and comparing Pretoria and London was quite funny. You pay more in London for Transportation, Utilities, Clothing, Rental, Food...only thing you more for in Pretoria is internet

It's always going to be more expensive while the rand is what it is , what you are not taking into account is what people actually earn for the same job over there. The site is a good indication of what salary you need in the other country to come out equal.

So while things might be more expensive, chances are your salary will ALSO be more to compensate. So it doesn't say much until you know what you are going to earn.

Without the salary that site just tells you what will happen if you move overseas with your current salary in rands.

 

[bwana]

Don't take the people trying to suggest you have a better quality of life in the Uk as a middle classed person too seriously. It goes against all the available evidence. You have to get very creative and dishonest with the variables to come to such a conclusion.

The Uk has a lot of pros and S.A a great many cons but quality and affordability of life is very one sided in SA favour.

Why do I feel you're confusing quality of life with standard of living?

I might have to work more in the UK to achieve the same standard of living but our quality of life will almost certainly be higher.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Why do I feel you're confusing quality of life with standard of living?

I might have to work more in the UK to achieve the same standard of living but our quality of life will almost certainly be higher.

Quality of life is entirely subjective and based on personal perception. So while I don't know how you can be sure people have a better "quality" in the Uk, I probably used the wrong words there.

I could have perhaps said "ease" of living. Or perhaps ease of affordability of a middle classed life.

As a middle classed South African tou enjoy an extremely high standard of living ease. Maids, gardeners, cheap dining and socialising, great environment and weather. Relatively cheap petrol, food and electricity compared to the first and developing world. Cheap and relatively luxury housing. We have it better than the average "brit".

 

[JayM]

Quality of life is entirely subjective and based on personal perception. So while I don't know how you can be sure people have a better "quality" in the Uk, I probably used the wrong words there.

I could have perhaps said "ease" of living. Or perhaps ease of affordability of a middle classed life.

As a middle classed South African tou enjoy an extremely high standard of living ease. Maids, gardeners, cheap dining and socialising, great environment and weather. Relatively cheap petrol, food and electricity compared to the first and developing world. Cheap and relatively luxury housing. We have it better than the average "brit".

SA is great value. Comes with a free murder.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

SA is great value. Comes with a free murder.

Overstating the risk of being murdered here is so 2001. Even for someone in the high risk poor black male demographic. But as I said we do have a lot of cons compared to the Uk. But the cost of living is in the Pro column.

 

[nthdimension]

Healthcare and schooling are also very expensive in the UK if you don't want to go with what the government offers.

 

[AstroTurf]

My cousin (a pastor) just moved his family to America.

 

[Sinbad]

Healthcare and schooling are also very expensive in the UK if you don't want to go with what the government offers.

Yes. But what the government offers is mostly perfectly fine. Yes there are bad schools and bad hospitals, but overall, it's good.

 

[Sinbad]

Overstating the risk of being murdered here is so 2001. Even for someone in the high risk poor black male demographic. But as I said we do have a lot of cons compared to the Uk. But the cost of living is in the Pro column.

South Africa, 2012 and 2011 (can't find 2013 figures): 31 per 100k per annum
England, 2011: 1 per 100k per annum.

So, you're 31 times more likely to be murdered in SA than in England.
Is that overstating the risk?

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

South Africa, 2012 and 2011 (can't find 2013 figures): 31 per 100k per annum
England, 2011: 1 per 100k per annum.

So, you're 31 times more likely to be murdered in SA than in England.
Is that overstating the risk?

Split that down to demographics and class and it paints a different picture of the risks a middle classed person faces here. But yes you have a higher chance of getting murdered here, even though it remains a very low risk. I personally think if you are going to avoid doing things based on those odds then you definately should stop driving a car.

 

[Sinbad]

Split that down to demographics and class and it paints a different picture of the risks a middle classed person faces here.

So you're saying it's actually ok to stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is fine because some OTHER demographic is getting murdered more than my demographic.

OK then.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

So you're saying it's actually ok to stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is fine because some OTHER demographic is getting murdered more than my demographic.

OK then.

Yes. It's ok to concern yourself with the safety of yourself and your family. If not we should hate on people who emmigrate out of safety concerns. That would be silly to assume to tell people how and where to live.

 

[Sinbad]

Yes. It's ok to concern yourself with the safety of yourself and your family. If not we should hate on people who emmigrate out of safety concerns. That would be silly to assume to tell people how and where to live.

Heh. But people DO hate on people who emigrate because of safety concerns. Chicken run, anyone?

 

[R13...]

So you're saying it's actually ok to stick my head in the sand and pretend everything is fine because some OTHER demographic is getting murdered more than my demographic.

OK then.

I think people should be free to decide their future for whatever reason. It is just ironic that people are quick to want to separate the demographics when it suits their agenda yet happy to lump everything together to support some other agenda as it suits.

 

[Midnight_choir_drunk]

Heh. But people DO hate on people who emigrate because of safety concerns. Chicken run, anyone?

No, I think people tease those that leave and then want to toss peanuts from the gallery. Almost all middle classed South Africans have travelled and know their options and many have options to leave but stay. Let's maybe respect their rights and choices too ?

 

[nthdimension]

Medical Insurance in the UK

I think people should be free to decide their future for whatever reason. It is just ironic that people are quick to want to separate the demographics when it suits their agenda yet happy to lump everything together to support some other agenda as it suits.

It depends on what you're looking at and why doesn't it. Deciding on the risk to myself depends on where I live and what colour I am. That's a fact. There are US cities with murder rates higher than the South African average, but most of those murders happen in poor areas. There are US cities with rape rates nearly as high as South Africa. The same applies to Australia.

 

[zippy]

Well when i got a job offer for the Netherlands last year i had to do alot of cost calculations, i found this site quite valuable:

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/comparison.jsp

Example:


You can easily see what things cost and where you will get nailed (and how much you should at least earn to match your lifestyle in SA). Things that was throwing me off :

1. The actual salary they offer, while translated from euro -> rand was alot, it was alot less in terms of what i can do in europe with it as opposed to doing the exact same thing in SA.
2. Taxes and Pension : You actually need to be a CITIZEN to benefit from alot of these things. In the Netherlands you do get a "tax break" while you're not a citizen, but you don't mysteriously get all the benefits that normal citizens get. Not sure how the UK works with this, but i still had to budget additional for medical aid + pension (same we do here) while paying 30% tax (citizens pay a higher tax rate, more like 40%-50%, not sure).
3. The actual job was/is a step down, with limited promotion/increases ability (Europeans don't seem to be big on annual increases like in SA, usually an increase implies a promotion) , one can see it as a "stepping stone" , but i haven't felt that negative about my current circumstances to want to do that.

In the UK you get access to all services if you are permanent resident. If you aren't a permanent resident you get access to the NHS. If you aren't a perm resident you wont get access to the other social services, such as housing benefit, child care benefit, study benefits and unemployment benefits. But once you get permanent residence you get access to all. You don't need to be a citizen. A lot of those benefits depend on what your history of NI(national insurance) contributions has been, so you wont get as much if you have only been contributing for a few years.

 

[bwana]

Split that down to demographics and class and it paints a different picture of the risks a middle classed person faces here. But yes you have a higher chance of getting murdered here, even though it remains a very low risk. I personally think if you are going to avoid doing things based on those odds then you definately should stop driving a car.

Are you sure you want to shine the spotlight on road safety? http://mg.co.za/article/2013-05-23-south-africa-ranked-worst-in-global-road-safety-report