Do you support the death penalty?

Do you support the death penalty?

  • Yes

    Votes: 263 76.0%
  • No

    Votes: 83 24.0%

  • Total voters
    346

Toxxyc

Executive Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
5,090
State-sanctioned (or carried out) murder is still murder.
Uhm no. Murder is specifically defined as "unlawful". If the law caters for it, and it's carried out lawfully, it is not murder, it is execution. Big difference.
 

The Door

Honorary Master
Joined
Jul 18, 2008
Messages
58,474
I'm a religious person, and I can honestly say I don't want anyone dead, especially not criminals. I seek and desire their repentance and reform of life. But that cannot be at the cost of justice.

Human justice is imperfect. Those of us who are religious believe that in any case justice on earth is only provisional and interim and temporal, and that we all face true, perfect and eternal justice after this probation.

Those who are materialists and atheists necessarily believe this earthly life is all there is, and in any case it's all ultimately meaningless, pointless and valueless anyway.
As a religious person how do you feel about Romans 13:3-4?
What about punishment for crime being a deterrent and potentially leading someone to repentance if they're knowingly facing an early grave?
 
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Arthur

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
26,428
State-sanctioned (or carried out) murder is still murder. Doesn't matter how you dress it up, executing people in the name of the state just lowers the whole of society to the status of murderer.
Until fairly recently, murder was classicially defined as the intentional taking of an innocent person's life. Each term has a massive corpus of reflections and writings by jurists and philosophers over the ages, largely now ignored. Modern redefinitions have clouded the issue and confused the debate, largely because they seek to detach the definition from its Natural Law roots.

Society needs better policing and prosecuting and more focus on what's important, not harsher punishment.
Indeed.

But what's important? That's where the argument lies.
 

Nikita 007

Active Member
Joined
May 31, 2017
Messages
36
There are people that the entire planet is better off without. Our parole system is porous and we have a lot of repeat offenders including murderous that are paroled.
 

AmpZ_

Active Member
Joined
Jun 12, 2019
Messages
30
This is the thing right..

For heinous crimes, I fully support this notion. Why keep people around who are a danger to society?
But, in a country like SA, this will not work.

Now, problem one: (Associated only to the implementation, not the country)
In a country where Death Row is still active (US), we would need to look at those stats before implementing the Death Penalty here, albeit a different ruling system and jury (which surprisingly, when uncertain, the jury will still vote 'guilty', even if the evidence is far from conclusive, which then comes into question the mental state of those chosen to decide the fate of another, anyways..). The amount of inmates sitting and awaiting trial who were actually wrongfully convicted make up a small but very worrying percentage. Some will sit for years without parole before their case is heard, re-opened and dismissed. Still, a waste of valuable time. That percentage of inmates who have been put to death because of a wrongful conviction is still very real. With today's technology, that percentage is less, but still a risk. Our judicial system is not perfect either, which then poses another issue when it comes to sentencing.

Problem two:
In order to implement the Death penalty in SA, there will need to be a National Referendum, and if the majority are for the implementation, then the constitution will need to be altered. However, once this has happened, and people realize they can request change through common public interest, people may just request another referendum for changes that may just impact the economy negatively.. Why can there be a referendum for one thing and not the other. So this is the issue that we are facing.
The average person in SA who bares an IQ of 77, according to stats, is dumb, and lacks basic morality, along with general logical reasoning and understanding. To put such power is the hands of someone like that is just suicide.

If I were on the board to discuss cases and who should / should not be sentenced according to evidence and circumstances, I would have no problem ending the life of someone who has ruined the life of another. If you willingly deny someone the right to life, you should forfeit your own. And don't come here with this rehabilitation crap either, 90% of the time it does not work, people return to society to commit the same crime over and over again, and those who suffer are good people who are just trying to go about their day.
 

winseraf

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2016
Messages
241
Death Penalty for serious crimes (murder and rape): Yes.
However with our incompetent government this will be abused.
A Few people will get the penalty that are innocent or before we know it using the K word falls under this law.
So with our current government: No
Agreed
 

DHimself

Active Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2017
Messages
38
Are you ok with locking people up in cages? For months or even years?

I agree that the deterrent effect is minimal if not zero. But in my view deterrence is quite beside the point and shouldn't be a consideration. Rehabilitation is a distant third aim, but only for certain less-serious categories of crime.

As I said earlier, the primary purpose should be punishment. Justice demands that unjustly and intentionally taking a non-aggressor's life - one of the most serious violations possible in society - be punished by the forfeit of the aggressor's own life. Serious crimes demand serious punishment in proportion to the gravity of the violation. Few things are as grave as intentionally taking someone else's life.

I hear you. Just a little afraid of the “eye for an eye leaves everyone blind” adage. Too many things need to be considered here, not just that a justifiable action doesn’t necessarily mean a right action.
 

KingAuthor

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 7, 2018
Messages
193
For violent crimes, yes. Verdict should be delivered by a jury though. Let your fellow citizens decide your fate.

But I'm under no illusion that it actually works as a preventative measure. If it worked the US wouldn't have so many people on death row. People will still rape; murder and commit acts of terror. Its just a way to cleanse society of them.
A jury in South Africa will be a difficult thing, mainly because of language barriers. Another thing is racial issues.
 

grok

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 20, 2007
Messages
26,929
The following is excluded whilst our incompetent government is still in place.

Death penalty yes, but also a 1.5m x 1.5m steel box. small enough so you can never stand up or lay down properly with the roof exposed to the sun in which they have to remain till they die, they'll get food and a bit of water but just enough to survive.

This should be reserved for those whom death would be a kindness, think child rapists or mass murderers and the like.

Well, that escalated quickly..!

Ironically, you & your torture response is exactly why I don't trust anyone (especially governments) should have the power of the death penalty.
Too often it would be used for some vindictive/revenge/personal/perverse reason instead of what it was intended for.
Look at the Janusz Walus case, all political murders got forgiven and we moved on, but oh no 'this one has hurt us on our studio' so no pardon for him.
You'd be a fool if you didn't acknowledge that the death penalty would be used in a similar uneven or unfair way or for personal reasons.

I do however acknowledge that certain people need to be removed from society, permanently as well, but that no human should hold that power over another.

Especially not our government, just imagine for a moment that SARS chief officer for IT got the job..
 
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Ace@30066

Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2019
Messages
22
I don't think the death penalty is the solutions of any kind of crimes in South Africa because the wrongdoers will keep doing their habit of wrongdoing.
 

ChasI

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 21, 2013
Messages
104
No. I just expect them to work for their food, accommodation etc. Society does not need to pay for their prison. They must earn enough to pay their way.
 

SPERUJ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2012
Messages
195
Do you support the death penalty for certain crimes? If so, are you not concerned about giving the state power over life and death?
Do you support the death penalty for certain crimes? If so, are you not concerned about giving the state power over life and death?

Yes (for murder , rape ,persecution of christians etc. ) This black government must Never favour the blacks & give only we the non-blacks the penalty or imprisonment :sneaky:
 

Esbendzn

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2017
Messages
622
Yes! If the person deserves it.... but here you can still get the death penalty and still ne eligible for parole
 

Toxxyc

Executive Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2012
Messages
5,090
I don't think the death penalty is the solutions of any kind of crimes in South Africa because the wrongdoers will keep doing their habit of wrongdoing.
Pretty hard to be wrongdoing if you're in a box 6 feet underground.
 
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