Do you think LSD has any benefits?

RiaX

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
7,211
hmmmm unfortunately its against the law to release hospital files without ethical clearence so I cant go and get hospital records for LSD indueced psychosis.

Multiple sites in the CNS are affected by LSD. The drug shows 5-HT agonist activity at presynaptic receptors in the midbrain, binding to both 5-HT1 and 5-HT2 receptors. Activation of the sympathetic nervous system occurs, which causes pupillary dilation, increased blood pressure, piloerection and increased body temperature. Taken orally, low doses of LSD can induce hallucinations with brilliant colours. Mood alterations also occurs. Tolerence and physcal dependence have occurred, but true dependence is rare. Adverse effects include hyperreflexia, nausea and muscular weakness. High doses may produce long-lasting psychotic changes in susceptible individuals. Haloperidol and other neuroleptics can block the hallucinatory action of LSD and quickly abort the syndrome

Lippincott's illustrated reviews, Pharmacology 3rd edition. Richard D Howland, Mary J Mycek. Pg 122-123

Acute toxic effects include restlessness, anxiety, tremors and incoordination, dilated pupils, depersonalization, hallucinations (usually visual), illusions (often more pronounced than hallucinations), paranoia, panic reactions and mild hypertension. Severe anxiety, panic reactions and paranoia often combined with depression and suicidal thoughts may be perceived as a 'bad trip'. Although rhabdomyolysis, malignant hyperthermia, seizures and coma have been reported

South African Medical Formulary, 7th ed. page 550

Okay now into manufacture of LSD.

First lyseric acid must be neutralised with lithium hydroxide (the electrolyte in Li based batteries, and is hazardous). This forms lithium lysergate which is then reacted with sulphur-trioxide dimethylformamide (carcenogenic) to for a crude LSD prouduct. When this is put into a crystal form, since you dont have industrial grade or pharmaceutical grade purifiers theses solvents and chemicals get trapped as impurities within LSD crystals. As per Synaesthesia's reference LSD on the street usually is at a 60% purity level, unadultered means a secondary ACTIVE ingredient is not added, doesnt speak for expients or formulating ingredients.

Next to use lyseric acid with carbonyldiimiazole (unknown toxicity, considered carcinogenic) then later reacting it with diethylamide (this you cant do because you wont be able to get diethylamide without anyone noticing).

Another method is to react lysergic acid with trifluoroacetic anhydride (cardiotoxic) then treating the reactants with diethylamide.

You can also make LSD from fungii or certain ergot alkaloids. You treat the alkaloid with hydrazine hydrate (extremely toxic and carcinogenic, Acute exposure can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system) since this compound is so toxic to get rid of it you have to use sodium nitrate to create azides (which forms certain azide groups that are half as toxic as cyanide). Then you treate the mixture with diethylamide to create LSD. Again a crude production at best.

Now if you really want to make good pure LSD you got to fractionate them out, but without the expensive machines you not doing much good here. Most of the time they just remove the iso-LSD which is inactive to produce a potent product. Potent cheap product = good business.

Now for LSD stamps and sublingual they react it out to form a salt of LSD then dissolve that salt with methanol or a hydrocarbon you need a solvent that would increase permeability with respect to the blood brain barrier. Sublingual routes avoid first-pass metabolism rendering the body's ability to remove harmful products from ingestion useless, hence again why purity is of the most importance.

Since you cant go to a shop and say "hi Id like to buy some lysergic acid" , the chemists make their own. They do this by again using alkaloids by refluxing the alkaloid with potassium hydroxide and hydrazine (as discussed toxic) a methanol/water solution mixture (heat it to a reactive temperature to encourage reaction, requires specialised lab equipment if you interested in safety for the finished product, or you can do it on a stove in a pot D: )

or you can get lyseric acid from cultures but that would take too long.

So ask yourself how much does 15micrograms of a substance is ? then look at the product in your hand and ask yourself how much does it weigh? then consider what the different in mass is made of. Like most substances the effects can be felt many years after you take it, as its cardiotoxic for example. You are unaware of all these processes working in the body because one you goofed and two you not medically trained (i assume). Your arguements would hold IF you had a product purified and manufactured according to good manufacture procedures and company SOP to ensure high quality of a drug. With a street drug there are no rules, generally made cruedly and cheaply as quickly as possible so you dont get caught. If you take it and dont die with a couple hours, its good enough for them. If you think they doing a good service for the community then Im afraid you are trusting a drug dealer and that is beyond stupid frankly.
 

RiaX

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
7,211
IMG-20111010-00306.jpg


lol drugs are bad mkay :p , I once confiscated pure cocaine from a ward they were planning to steal it D:

took a picture cause it was my first time seeing surgical cocaine
 
Last edited:

Synaesthesia

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
5,685
So ask yourself how much does 15micrograms of a substance is ? then look at the product in your hand and ask yourself how much does it weigh? then consider what the different in mass is made of.
Dude, your grammar. Like I don't even know what you're saying.

Like most substances the effects can be felt many years after you take it, as its cardiotoxic for example. You are unaware of all these processes working in the body because one you goofed and two you not medically trained (i assume).
If you say it's cardiotoxic, please supply evidence. Millions and millions of people take this drug every year. Just in the USA, the number people trying LSD for the first time every year is 400 000, that gives you an idea of how popular it is.

You're welcome to believe what you want to and by all means be careful with street drugs.

Now Cocaine, that is very dangerous, you hear of Cocaine overdoses all the time.
 

Techne

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
12,851
hmmmm unfortunately its against the law to release hospital files without ethical clearence so I cant go and get hospital records for LSD indueced psychosis.



Lippincott's illustrated reviews, Pharmacology 3rd edition. Richard D Howland, Mary J Mycek. Pg 122-123



South African Medical Formulary, 7th ed. page 550

Okay now into manufacture of LSD.

First lyseric acid must be neutralised with lithium hydroxide (the electrolyte in Li based batteries, and is hazardous). This forms lithium lysergate which is then reacted with sulphur-trioxide dimethylformamide (carcenogenic) to for a crude LSD prouduct. When this is put into a crystal form, since you dont have industrial grade or pharmaceutical grade purifiers theses solvents and chemicals get trapped as impurities within LSD crystals. As per Synaesthesia's reference LSD on the street usually is at a 60% purity level, unadultered means a secondary ACTIVE ingredient is not added, doesnt speak for expients or formulating ingredients.

Next to use lyseric acid with carbonyldiimiazole (unknown toxicity, considered carcinogenic) then later reacting it with diethylamide (this you cant do because you wont be able to get diethylamide without anyone noticing).

Another method is to react lysergic acid with trifluoroacetic anhydride (cardiotoxic) then treating the reactants with diethylamide.

You can also make LSD from fungii or certain ergot alkaloids. You treat the alkaloid with hydrazine hydrate (extremely toxic and carcinogenic, Acute exposure can also damage the liver, kidneys, and central nervous system) since this compound is so toxic to get rid of it you have to use sodium nitrate to create azides (which forms certain azide groups that are half as toxic as cyanide). Then you treate the mixture with diethylamide to create LSD. Again a crude production at best.

Now if you really want to make good pure LSD you got to fractionate them out, but without the expensive machines you not doing much good here. Most of the time they just remove the iso-LSD which is inactive to produce a potent product. Potent cheap product = good business.

Now for LSD stamps and sublingual they react it out to form a salt of LSD then dissolve that salt with methanol or a hydrocarbon you need a solvent that would increase permeability with respect to the blood brain barrier. Sublingual routes avoid first-pass metabolism rendering the body's ability to remove harmful products from ingestion useless, hence again why purity is of the most importance.

Since you cant go to a shop and say "hi Id like to buy some lysergic acid" , the chemists make their own. They do this by again using alkaloids by refluxing the alkaloid with potassium hydroxide and hydrazine (as discussed toxic) a methanol/water solution mixture (heat it to a reactive temperature to encourage reaction, requires specialised lab equipment if you interested in safety for the finished product, or you can do it on a stove in a pot D: )

or you can get lyseric acid from cultures but that would take too long.

So ask yourself how much does 15micrograms of a substance is ? then look at the product in your hand and ask yourself how much does it weigh? then consider what the different in mass is made of. Like most substances the effects can be felt many years after you take it, as its cardiotoxic for example. You are unaware of all these processes working in the body because one you goofed and two you not medically trained (i assume). Your arguements would hold IF you had a product purified and manufactured according to good manufacture procedures and company SOP to ensure high quality of a drug. With a street drug there are no rules, generally made cruedly and cheaply as quickly as possible so you dont get caught. If you take it and dont die with a couple hours, its good enough for them. If you think they doing a good service for the community then Im afraid you are trusting a drug dealer and that is beyond stupid frankly.
Dude! You have just wasted your own time by typing out perfectly legitimate science to explain it to druggies :erm:. You could have put this into writing a research article for peer-review:(.
 

syntax

Executive Member
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
8,656
Dude! You have just wasted your own time by typing out perfectly legitimate science to explain it to druggies :erm:. You could have put this into writing a research article for peer-review:(.

and why is everyone who has an opinion differing to his or yours automatically a "druggie"?
 

Techne

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
12,851
Dude, your grammar. Like I don't even know what you're saying.

If you say it's cardiotoxic, please supply evidence. Millions and millions of people take this drug every year. Just in the USA, the number people trying LSD for the first time every year is 400 000, that gives you an idea of how popular it is.

You're welcome to believe what you want to and by all means be careful with street drugs.

Now Cocaine, that is very dangerous, you hear of Cocaine overdoses all the time.
Millions and millions you say. Well that may actually help explain the high incidence of cardiac failure lol.
 

Synaesthesia

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
5,685
The point is so many millions of people do it every year. If there was any medical complication surrounding it, it would be public knowledge: the authorities love pointing out any dangers to drugs.

I'm talking about physical harm, I know that it can be psychologically traumatic. There is no evidence of it being physically harmful OK, if you can find facts to the contrary I'd like to know.
 

Techne

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 28, 2008
Messages
12,851
The point is so many millions of people do it every year. If there was any medical complication surrounding it, it would be public knowledge: the authorities love pointing out any dangers to drugs.

I'm talking about physical harm, I know that it can be psychologically traumatic. There is no evidence of it being physically harmful OK, if you can find facts to the contrary I'd like to know.
Point being, if the drug is pure. Riax makes perfectly valid point about potential impurities in street drugs.

It would be interesting to have a discussion here with someone that has a little bit of varisty science (especially chemistry, biochemistry and physiology) background that actually defends the usage of street drugs.
 
Last edited:

AstroTurf

Lucky Shot
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
30,534
You can put anything on a stamp, its just a fun away of giving the thing. Sublingual route it just has to be in the mouth, but I dont know if you can do DMT S/L I was just theorising

Anything on a stamp without changing color, taste or residue?

Thanks, just proved that you are a bull****ter.
 

AstroTurf

Lucky Shot
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
30,534
Ingesting Serotonin will do nothing to you. Same with DMT, they are both broken down by MAO. DMT taken with a MAO inhibitor is orally active (Ayahuasca)

This is not true. It's relatively easy to make drugs. You don't need to make LSD on a large scale. How did Albert Hoffman then make LSD with his simple laboratory in 1943? Tests show most LSD tabs are pure.

More proof, RiaX is talking kak.
 

AstroTurf

Lucky Shot
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
30,534
I put up a very fair documentry that is scientifically sound. Techne posted a journal article or two. Ive referenced many processes in human physiology. Im not going to repost things because you to lazy to look back

You failed to read any of the documentation and books suggested. Why should anyone read or watch any of the stuff you put up?
 

AstroTurf

Lucky Shot
Joined
May 13, 2010
Messages
30,534
Actually, 99% of LSD you find on the streets come from Holland and Switzerland at home laboratories by organic chemists. Its pretty difficult to make, and I bet you, you wont find a producer in Africa.

Shelf life, Unless you have someone fly in with very specific time schedules and have everything sold withing an extremely short period of time all they will be selling is blotting paper.
 

Unhappy438

Honorary Master
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
24,916
Shelf life, Unless you have someone fly in with very specific time schedules and have everything sold withing an extremely short period of time all they will be selling is blotting paper.

I doubt that, William Pickard supplied 90% of all lsd throughout the world in the 90s . How did he manage that?
 

RiaX

Executive Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2012
Messages
7,211
You failed to read any of the documentation and books suggested. Why should anyone read or watch any of the stuff you put up?

Because mine are from medical textbooks not some author's opinion ?
My documentry in an independant documentry from national geographic ? just goes to show this is about winning for you defending or justifying LSD to yourself, I dont really care if you take LSD nor do I care if you believe me lol, goes to show how much you know about getting credible information. Like those idiots that think the government is putting fluorine in toothpaste to mind control the public.

ROFL "shelf-life" yes like a drug dealer gives a f**k about shelf life its got to be stable enough for people to buy it, none of you can even start an assay and you want to talk big about shelf-life. Please go read on storage conditions of substances and effects on shelf-life and how long you must do shelf-life tests. Next thing you going to tell me your street LSD comes with a batch number and expiry date... well done man, well done *thumbs up*

You do know LSD is an organic molecule, it degrades fast with light, heat and water. Does your LSD come in a blister pack? or amber stained glass? cause Alfred Hoffman's product did :p . When you bought your LSD what was the preservative they used did you check the ingredients listed in the back? oh wait thats right, it was made in a bath tub or imported in shady conditions to avoid police thats right. There is no point even referencing material to a person like you who lacks common sense.

Techne said:
Dude! You have just wasted your own time by typing out perfectly legitimate science to explain it to druggies . You could have put this into writing a research article for peer-review

A peer review with a retarded topic like this wont even pass ethical clearence stages, its not even worthy for honors. You do this topic when you present it to the board everyone will be like "so why you doing this research? we know this". Why you think any person to suggest medical uses of LSD in an important position has been fired or is now dead ? why do you think this research doesnt exist ? its like doing research to say "does the sun exist?" the cases are there in hospital files if you a medical professional you would see the cases and have access to it. the lay person doesnt believe in it because they assume they are the normality, they say "oh panado doesnt work" suddendly they assume paracetamol is ineffective for the whole world, its the arrogance of the unskilled - I see it quite often thats why I still have the patience to post here.

They still ask for evidence on cardiotoxicity lol, I've provide the most relevant evidence from a collection of all south african assessments complied by UCT med school. They refute it lol, and ask for evidence :wtf:

They claim LSD has good properties, defend backyard stuff. Yet they say things like nexiam and all of nexiam's research is wrong just use omeprazole. The sheer arrogance. Saying "LSD can be used for alcoholism" is like saying "I think you should treat that sore throat with surgery" both will work in isolated events, but its not a real option. Other than the nonsense their friends tell them and the tons of rubbish floating on the internet people these days assume they know it all because they have the powerhouse google at their fingertips, yet they simply cant process the information that is presented. If you look at all the information sourced its comes from two sources, wikipedia and a LSD pro site (bias much?)

They cant determine the difference between information, since when if something is stated in a book that makes it true? so far all they have quote is a few THEORIES by a few people. You have quoted journal articles from pharmacology journal. I have quoted from in field experience and physiology (which they want references for so it I quote gravity next time I will be sure to put Newton's papers as a reference). I've quoted from the SAMF which is the most important textbook for medical practice in south africa. Ive sourced information from a pharmacopeia, medicinal chemistry textbooks and pharmacology textbooks and its all been conviently ignored and as astroturf has shown, they dont even bother to read a shred of it. Im truely not interested in educating the people of the forum, I have an ulterior motive to this thread dude, normally I wouldnt waste my time with such stubborness. Perhaps I can use this thread for a Pharmaceutical care paper :p there is enough research on the unwillingness of patients :D like a quick and easy masters for me

Synaesthesia said:
Dude, your grammar. Like I don't even know what you're saying

yeah sorry about that I dont proof read or copy and paste just type D: . See I can have this debate without google/wikipedia in person.
 

crysis

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2006
Messages
3,463
Shelf life, Unless you have someone fly in with very specific time schedules and have everything sold withing an extremely short period of time all they will be selling is blotting paper.

Shelf life is actually incredibly long in its liquid form, and can store indefinitely if sealed and isolated from light. And its easy to cross over borders with it. I heard a story of a girl going from london to brazil with a small bottle (100hits or so) of acid in her pocket. During the brazilian festival in her small town, every one was tripping on acid :)


That being said, I would like to say, a lot of people dont know what they are talking about when it comes to LSD. Most of their information is stained with years of anti drug propaganda. These people class all drugs together as the same, and class the people who defend one drug, as a defender of all. Well, truth is, not all drugs are the same, nor are the people who defend one. Calling some one a drug addict because they defend LSD is about as clever as supplying condoms in the vasectomy clinic.

A fact:

-LSD is less toxic than asprin. Its also incredibly difficult to cut with other chemicals, if not down right impossible in blotter form. No other psychoactive can fit on a 1cm square piece of paper that can even remotely affect you, with the exception of a few incredibly rare substances, I doubt you would have to worry about it.
 
Last edited:

Synaesthesia

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
5,685
Did you provide evidence for LSD's cardiotoxicity? Sorry I must have missed that. What's this about Nexiam? I don't recall that discussion.
 

Synaesthesia

Executive Member
Joined
Feb 1, 2007
Messages
5,685
It would be interesting to have a discussion here with someone that has a little bit of varisty science (especially chemistry, biochemistry and physiology) background that actually defends the usage of street drugs.
Well I have Physics and Chemistry. I would, and have many friends which would defend the use of street drugs, although not all, and I would say be very cautious! Although I recommend that everybody does research about a substance before taking it, start with low dosages.

Post #251 had the most important basic information, on preparing for the use of psychedelics.
 
Top