Do you think LSD has any benefits?

[RiaX]

sigh .... lsd not dangerous ? well what about rocket-boy's account ?

you people have selective reading.

As thought its about "winning" ... ugh. You cant tell science from opinions from common sense what idiots.

 

[Sensorei]

You will never win this debate, there is always some "expert" to stubborn and to self righteous to listen to anyone else's opinions.

Exactly, even opinions from professors and real psychiatric experts. I think we should leave the troll alone to enjoy his narcissism in peace.

 

[RiaX]

Exactly, even opinions from professors and real psychiatric experts. I think we should leave the troll alone to enjoy his narcissism in peace.

:wtf:

 

[AstroTurf]

sigh .... lsd not dangerous ? well what about rocket-boy's account ?

you people have selective reading.

As thought its about "winning" ... ugh. You cant tell science from opinions from common sense what idiots.

Drugs is bad.
Mmkay...

 

[Sherbang]

sigh .... lsd not dangerous ? well what about rocket-boy's account ?

Wait, what? You turn your nose up at the opinion of well respected expert and specialist in the field, an opinion based on years of research and then offer us the opinion of 2 guys rocket-boy knows instead? :wtf:

you people have selective reading.

As thought its about "winning" ... ugh. You cant tell science from opinions from common sense what idiots.

LOL, you're the one with selective reading - I never said it's not dangerous, I specifically said no drug is totally safe. It is dangerous, however, the science shows it to be less dangerous than alcohol and tobacco, both of which are legal. So your assertion that it was banned because it is too dangerous to even do research with is simply false - it was banned for political reasons, not medical or safety reasons. LSD is less dangerous than alcohol, heroin, cocaine, barbiturates, methadone and tobacco - this is an experts opinion based on the evidence.

 

[scudsucker]

sigh .... lsd not dangerous ? well what about rocket-boy's account ?

you people have selective reading.

As thought its about "winning" ... ugh. You cant tell science from opinions from common sense what idiots.

One would hope that you, as a self-proclaimed scientist, would understand

a) anecdotal evidence is not empirical,
b) correlation does not equal causation

And your constant presentation of your opinion as "scientific fact" without any effort to substantiate your claims* suggests that it is not we who are the idiots.




* Care to finally supply the research that shows toxic additives/impurities in street LSD? No? I didn't think so.

 

[Synaesthesia]

You cant get pharmaceutical grade LSD, FACT.

The Netherlands have free testing programs for drugs. If you look on Silk Road there are vendors selling LSD which has been confirmed in tests. Also most tests sho streetw LSD is generally the real thing, with some impurities, like iso-LSD which doesn't really affect the drug. http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_article1.shtml

 

[RiaX]

One would hope that you, as a self-proclaimed scientist, would understand

a) anecdotal evidence is not empirical,
b) correlation does not equal causation

And your constant presentation of your opinion as "scientific fact" without any effort to substantiate your claims* suggests that it is not we who are the idiots.




* Care to finally supply the research that shows toxic additives/impurities in street LSD? No? I didn't think so.

My evidence doesnt go against common medical knowledge one.

two:

* Care to finally supply the research that shows toxic additives/impurities in street LSD? No? I didn't think so.

really? on the same notion. Please provide evidence that STREET LSD uses perfect solvents and ingredients purified under standard pharmaceutical specifications. And that means no filter paper :/

 

[RiaX]

I can make LSD in my kitchen :/ you think im going to go buy the ingredients from a pharmaceutical chemical plant ? especially if I plan to mass produce ? ROFL how naive

 

[murraybiscuit]

I can make LSD in my kitchen :/ you think im going to go buy the ingredients from a pharmaceutical chemical plant ? especially if I plan to mass produce ? ROFL how naive

I'm sure somebody said earlier in this thread that ergotamine is actually not that easy to find, culture and distill. Surely you'd need some pretty specialized equipment in your kitchen?

 

[Sherbang]

I can make LSD in my kitchen :/ you think im going to go buy the ingredients from a pharmaceutical chemical plant ? especially if I plan to mass produce ? ROFL how naive

you speak like someone who knows where and how street LSD is being made, and who is making it! But really, you have no idea, you are assuming with no evidence whatsoever in order to satisfy your own preconceptions. So scientific, riax. Why wouldn't they use pharmaceutical grade chemicals? Who is to say it's not being produced by people with access to such chemicals? Street lsd has been randomly tested for it's purity and is almost always found to be pure unadulterated lsd.

 

[scudsucker]

My evidence doesnt go against common medical knowledge one...
...Please provide evidence that STREET LSD uses perfect solvents and ingredients purified under standard pharmaceutical specifications. And that means no filter paper :/

You made the claim that it is not pure. I would like you to back up that claim. Asking me for proof that it is all pure is disingenuous, and does not address the fact that you made the initial claim as to purity.

To be honest, I think that there is no point in trying to engage with you at all.

 

[Sensorei]

:wtf:

Professor Humphrey Osmond, Dr. Stanislav Grof, Professor Roland Griffiths, Dr. Charles Grob, just a few medical/psychiatric experts who say that LSD does have beneficial medical uses and that research should continue. Yet you seem to know better.

You say it is medically useless while many REAL medical/psychiatric experts disagree. You say that anyone credible who suggested medical uses of LSD in was fired or is now dead. Totally wrong.

If it is without a doubt medically useless, why did the FDA just a few years ago approve a clinical trial on the use of LSD to treat anxiety in cancer patients?

Why did the ethics board approve Dr. Gasser in his current study on LSD -he is finalizing the study for the FDA and preparing a manuscript for publication! The phase II double‐blind, placebo controlled dose response pilot study was completed just last year and every single person says that they benefitted from the LSD.

Dr. Gasser announced last year:

"Yesterday we had the second and final LSD‐assisted psychotherapy session of the 12th participant in our study. This means that we are more or less at the end of the first therapeutic LSD study in 35 years that started in November 2007 when Albert Hofmann was still alive.
I am proud to say that we had in 30 sessions (22 with full dose 200 μg LSD and 8 with placebo dose 20 μg LSD) no severe side effects such as psychotic experiences or suicidal crisis or flashbacks or severe anxieties (bad trips). That means that we can show that LSD treatment can be safe when it is done in a carefully controlled clinical setting.

We also can say that all the 12 participants reported a benefit from the treatment. Comments from the participants include that they see their lives more clearly; that they are more aware of what is important and meaningful and what is not for the remaining time they have; that they are more differentiated in relationships that are helpful and joyful and others that are time and energy consuming. They reported doing good and healthy things like having time for themselves, listening to music they like (or discovering music again) or being more relaxed toward everything that happened in their everyday life.

Just in case you missed that, everyone in the study says that they benefited from their LSD experience with no ill effects.

Ok. Done feeding the troll now.

 

[RiaX]

There is a difference between a case report and a clinical trial. 12 people for a clinical trial is as good as no clinical trial.

Secondly when u make lsd you use hydrazine, tell me when you don't gain a full reaction what do you do with the unreacted hydrazine ? Please enlighten me.

You think that these okes that cook lsd are doing dissolution testing? And they throw out bad batches ? No they sell it.

Any frequent users of lsd might be able to tell you that u get good lsd and bad lsd. Why do you think some is good stuff and the other is bad stuff (quality) because of the purity. Though because lsd is so potent it would be difficult to pick this up

 

[Synaesthesia]

The "bad acid" thing is a myth, read up about it. Never any evidence for that. There aren't any impurities that cause bad trips, it's all to do with mindset and setting.

 

[Synaesthesia]

There is a difference between a case report and a clinical trial. 12 people for a clinical trial is as good as no clinical trial.

The problem with having arguments is we can't get anywhere if we don't stick to established facts. You can't just dismiss what Sensorei's said, because 12 people in a clinical study is "no good". There is some valid information in there. It might not be enough to make a definitive statement about the drug, but all the people agree that it was beneficial, that does count for something right? It at least deserves to get more study.

Secondly when u make lsd you use hydrazine, tell me when you don't gain a full reaction what do you do with the unreacted hydrazine ? Please enlighten me.

You think that these okes that cook lsd are doing dissolution testing? And they throw out bad batches ? No they sell it.

Neither you nor I know exactly what goes on in an LSD synthesis, you're just speculating. There are several routes to getting to LSD. This synthesis doesn't even use Hydrazine whatsoever.

 

[Sensorei]

RiaX you still miss the point that in all 30 session there were no bad side effects and that every single person says that their experience was beneficial which is what this topic is about. We all know LSD can be extremely dangerous in the wrong hands. I thought you said it was medically useless? For these people in a clinical setting it wasn't medically useless.

 

[Sensorei]

The "bad acid" thing is a myth, read up about it. Never any evidence for that. There aren't any impurities that cause bad trips, it's all to do with mindset and setting.

Exactly true. I've done enough to know. It either works or it doesn't.

RiaX your trick question about hydrazine- simple, hydrazine is water soluble while lysergic acid hydrazide is not. That makes separation easy for any amateur chemist.

 

[RiaX]

You missing the point I'm not disagreeing that the probability is low I'm argueing that 12 people is insufficient to claim it doesn't exist. Also the fact medically its not superior to the current accepted treatment options therefore in a clinic setting lsd has no use

 

[RiaX]

Exactly true. I've done enough to know. It either works or it doesn't.

RiaX your trick question about hydrazine- simple, hydrazine is water soluble while lysergic acid hydrazide is not. That makes separation easy for any amateur chemist.

Water degrades lsd, normally you do a second chemical reaction to remove it. This is according to the us pharmacopeia. How they do it on the street I do not know

Edit:

If memory serves me right, one would use methanol then fractionally distill the stuff. Then you would do a chromatographic type seperation to remove iso-lsd.