Do you think LSD has any benefits?

[RiaX]

I have a question to frequent users of lsd if there are any here. Do you notice a loss of muscular strength ?

 

[Synaesthesia]

You missing the point I'm not disagreeing that the probability is low I'm argueing that 12 people is insufficient to claim it doesn't exist. Also the fact medically its not superior to the current accepted treatment options therefore in a clinic setting lsd has no use

There might be better medications for treating alcohol abuse, like you mentioned, sure, but in terms of psychiatric medicine, really there's nothing like LSD, it's quite unique. It can't really be compared to traditional medicine, which usually have no mental side effects. The emotional and psychological effects of psychedelic drugs are incredibly profound, there's nothing that will emotionally open up the mind like psychedelics.

Therapeutically they're unparalleled. Psychedelics can completely change they way you think about something, how you feel about it. They can show you the world and yourself in a completely different light. Traditional drugs can't do that. You know when somebody is closed off emotionally, you can sometimes never get through that emotional wall. Well MDMA tears it down instantly, it's unbelievable how reliably it works. But at the same time they can't simply be used like traditional medicines, where you simply write a prescription. There have to be guided sessions.

LSD certainly also has a place in cognitive science, the science of thinking. (which is a relatively new science). Again because it dramatically and reliably alters and enhances our consciousness and thinking, it's a real tool which we can use to aid our understanding of how consciousness and thinking work.

 

[Synaesthesia]

Water degrades lsd, normally you do a second chemical reaction to remove it. This is according to the us pharmacopeia.

Actually it's the trace amounts of Chlorine present in tap water which destroys LSD. It dissolves fine and remains stable in pure water.

 

[RiaX]

See this is how you debate, nice post. It irritates me when people get personal.

Define what you mean by an emotional wall? Because benzodiazepines can cause the patient to be liberal, clonazepam is notorious for this.

Also the long periods of intoxication is not a good thing with lsd, its simply too potent. You guys might not believe so but when I was @ a general hospital in a rural area patients didn't like taking their anxiolytics because it made them "drunk" and not being able to report to work means not eating on that day. We are fortunate we have internet jobs and money ect. If you want to bring lsd to medicine you have proove it can work realistically for all. The stats of white males middle or upper class using lsd is for recreational use so it does not apply here.

Next thing would you trust a study that only had 12 participants? I wouldn't. Just because its a journal article doesn't mean its free from bias. You have to assess the information in that article. I did a one year module on assessing validity on journal articles and it was a pain. Every medical textbook disagrees with your articles of lsd use, go pick one up and see. Furthermore my personal expirence disagrees, and case studies disagree so you have many areas of information that disagree.

We must becareful about researchers publishing results to push to allow study of lsd as opposed to actual medical studies for lsd. Research grant is a big thing and is the reason you get flawed research.

I would reference better but unfortunately I'm not typing up textbooks, lectures, conferences, and paid for articles which prevent you from copying and pasting (how do they do this?). Also since I left to specialise my authourisation for accessing information on this calibur has been removed.

 

[RiaX]

Actually it's the trace amounts of Chlorine present in tap water which destroys LSD. It dissolves fine and remains stable in pure water.

Reference this please.

chemical report says it degrades (slowly) when exposed to air, I would assume moisture in the air is pure water yes?

 

[Sensorei]

Water degrades lsd, normally you do a second chemical reaction to remove it. This is according to the us pharmacopeia. How they do it on the street I do not know

Edit:

If memory serves me right, one would use methanol then fractionally distill the stuff. Then you would do a chromatographic type seperation to remove iso-lsd.

Water degrades LSD, but not the hydrazide. There is no LSD present yet at that stage of synthesis.

 

[RiaX]

Water degrades LSD, but not the hydrazide. There is no LSD present yet at that stage of synthesis.

If you refering to simple decanting then there is no way you going to remove all the hydrazine like this.

We will have to look at the volume of distribution for hydrazine if we want to establish toxicity in this manner to see how its built up. I don't know this off hand... Killing time in a coffee shop waiting for peak hour traffic to go away. On a blackberry atm so fail. This will only matter for chronic users though.

 

[Synaesthesia]

LSD is sensitive to oxygen, ultraviolet light, and chlorine, especially in solution, though its potency may last for years if it is stored away from light and moisture at low temperature. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lysergic_acid_diethylamide

Yes let's not get personal. I'm enjoying this debate so let's not ruin it.

LSD "intoxication" basically consists of being super sensitive to the environment. Anxiolyics (benzodiazepines) are quite a different kettle of fish, you become less sensitive, you care less rather than more. The high is somewhat euphoric, you do kind of feel drunk on them, experience memory loss, they're quite addictive too, so I'm not surprised at your patients abusing them.

LSD would not simply be dispensed to a patient, but given in a therapeutic context, I would say only 1-5 times ever is necessary.

 

[Synaesthesia]

Hydrazine is highly toxic, 50-60mg will kill you. But the average dose of LSD is about 0.1mg. Hardly anything is toxic at that range, so I'm not too concerned about impurities, unlike other drugs.

 

[RiaX]

Yes you not going to die from hydrazine with one shot of lsd.

However how long does that 0.1 mg stay in the body. Volume of distribution and half-life if you can access it.

Lol too much information for one brain, bloody hell pharmacology is a bitch

Lol leave the paitents, I used to abuse them in my stupid campus days. A benzo and vodka is a killer combo lost almost a year of memory though lol, was epic fun trying to retrace my life at the time. Left like sherlock holmes

 

[Sensorei]

If you refering to simple decanting then there is no way you going to remove all the hydrazine like this.

We will have to look at the volume of distribution for hydrazine if we want to establish toxicity in this manner to see how its built up. I don't know this off hand... Killing time in a coffee shop waiting for peak hour traffic to go away. On a blackberry atm so fail. This will only matter for chronic users though.

Ok, you're quite far off. After adding hydrazine and refluxing, you actually add water. Left over hydrazine is not a concern- After boiling and cooling the lysergic acid hydrazide forms a solid material while hydrazine remains in liquid state. Hydrazine is very toxic yes but since we're talking about prepping 100/200mcg doses of LSD, hydrazine toxicity is like worrying about eating a toxic dose of table salt with your slap chips.

 

[RiaX]

Refluxing is a fancy term for heating chemicals so they react. For this to work methanol must be added or an alcohol of somekind so you don't denature the lsd since its an organic compound

 

[Sensorei]

Nonsense you can use acetic acid. There is no lsd yet anyway, you're dealing with LSA or the alkaloid. Anyway this is going off topic.

 

[RiaX]

Acetic acid would be used to neutrilise the solution. You confused on your reactions. You start with acid base reaction because you use lithium hydroxide in this process to form lithium lysergate salt. The methanol is used with an anhydride to absorb the hydrazine and decrease the boiling point of the solution when you reflux it

 

[RiaX]

Its not viable to make lsd from alkaloids or lsa ... According to the americans its not cost effective and doesn't yeild a high amount of lsd

 

[Sensorei]

A high yield is relative. You can still make enough for a big rave. You're talking about another method. With the alkaloid or LSA you can just add hydrazine as step 1. It's tried n tested. Back on topic.

 

[RiaX]

oh okay. I know 4 ways to make LSD. I get confused sometimes, I will take your word for it because I assume you looking at the method right now

 

[Synaesthesia]

Took some shrooms last night. It really does help you appreciate nature.

 

[Sensorei]

Took some shrooms last night. It really does help you appreciate nature.

How sure are you that it's the Shrooms? Better get RiaX to check his books first before you make any assumptions! lol

 

[RiaX]

How sure are you that it's the Shrooms? Better get RiaX to check his books first before you make any assumptions! lol

you might ask for journal articles

what does shrooms taste like btw?