Do you think the alcohol and cigarette bans should be lifted?

Do you think the alcohol and cigarette bans should be lifted?

  • Yes

    Votes: 673 92.8%
  • No

    Votes: 52 7.2%

  • Total voters
    725

jwpkruger

New Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2008
Messages
9
Think there is more corruption, criminal activities, farm murders and other stuff to focus on besides trying to prove a point and withhold liquor and tobacco sales from adults . We all still smoke we all still drink, yet the killings and corruption continues and a steady pace and costing people their jobs and incomes. Wake up and smell the coffee dear ANC. YOU ARE FAILING YOUR PEOPLE AND DOING A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF IT.
 

geshepherd50@gmail.com

Active Member
Joined
Dec 20, 2017
Messages
77
If the government was genuinely concerned about the health of South Africans, they should have implemented support for people to overcome their addiction or reliance on nicotine and alcohol years ago. It's only now that some idiotic ministers are trying to impose their own personal agendas onto the population. Hopefully, they will reap the rewards at the next elections.
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
30,793
It's not lol...homebrew could mean he brews his own beer and sells it...anyway, this is boring now.
Seriously the guy said solutions and even said legal. Don't blame others for your comprehension.

Not at all. Any adult should be able to realize that a dependency on a simple chemical compound is idiotic, and if your constitution is so weak that you cannot say no, then serious doubt must be taken in your ability to handle your life and your job. Any parent who feels that cigarettes and alcohol must be used in the same house as children, should have their children removed and must be imprisoned.
Who said anything about dependency? Might as well turn that into sugar... or coffee... or tea. We are supposed to be living in a country with free choice and it has no place for these kinds of authoritarian thinking or ideologies. If we continue on this path we will end up with a civil war where citizens take up arms against the government, again.
 

DrHasntLost

Active Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2020
Messages
30
The Banning of these two basic commodities is Ludicrous. Same as if they were to Ban Bread and Milk....!
Do the Mampara Mafia running the A,nti N,icotine C,rew, believe they can Protect their Voters from Themselves...?
Another "Fail" by our PolitBureau.
 

Cutadash

Member
Joined
May 24, 2020
Messages
11
This.
If people are going to be stupid, then let nature takes its course. Natural Selection is a fact of life.

You can’t blame the people for the lack of governments preparedness.
Or rather. You can Blame And infringe upon the right of people because government were too busy stealing from all of us to be prepared.
They’ve done over and above enough to screw us all over.

Personally, I’m rather over having to pay, in more ways than one, for the corruption of a party who don’t give a flying ....
Ok so when is everyone going to wake up & stop voting ANC
I loved this op-ed on this topic and thought it worth sharing on here:

Excuse me Mr President, could we have a drink, please?

I need to say upfront that I’m a partner in a business that sells alcoholic drinks. Gin mostly, but we do – sorry did – a bit of everything. Of course, I’m aware that there are many other industries and entrepreneurs in the same boat; other businesses that, prior to lockdown, also had businesses with exciting prospects. Ours had grown from a start-up that I ran from my parent’s dining room table (thanks mom) to a business of 70 people and plans to take over the world.

But I’m not writing today only as someone who’s livelihood, and those of the 70 people who have entrusted their careers with us, depends on our ability to sell our wares. I’m also writing as a citizen, increasingly confused by what our government is hoping to achieve with the alcohol moratorium they have in place.

SA and a handful of other countries have decided to ban alcohol sales during lockdown - Greenland was one of the places that enacted something similar. If countries had opposites, I think Greenland might be ours. The place is a gigantic ice block where about 60 000 people live, and I’m just not sure that we have enough in common with them to be copying their best practise when it comes to banning alcohol sales. As an intriguing, but totally unrelated fact, parts of Greenland also ban burials: it’s so covered in permafrost that its practically impossible to bury someone; if you try, the body never decomposes and often gets pushed back up by the frost. Anyway, I digress.

I think most of us grimly nodded when we were told the country was going into lockdown a few weeks back. Given how scary some of the prognosis looked, it seemed like the only solution – slow this thing down and give the hospitals some time to prepare for the unprecedented numbers of people they were going to be treating, as the virus inevitably infected more and more people. “Flatten the curve!” we shouted from the rooftops.

Despite recent data that seems to suggest that Covid-19 isn’t quite as dangerous as was initially feared, this still seems to have been a sensible response given what we knew at the time. What is less clear, is how insisting that people not drink during this period flattens anything other than your mood.

I find the argument that the alcohol ban has miraculously delivered us fewer deaths and quieter hospitals, and is therefore justified, a little baffling. The lockdown has dropped levels of everything – my guess is we have far fewer road deaths too, and probably street muggings, but no one is suggesting that we stay in indefinite lockdown to maintain that. It would be silly. If we discovered that North Korea had lower crime rates, I don’t think that many of us would be suggesting that we copy their version of statesmanship either. And if banning alcohol sales was such a silver bullet, why isn’t the rest of the world copying our genius? Maybe, just maybe, it’s not so smart after all.

So here we are; a weird outlier of a country where we’re unable to have a drink while living through these crazy, scary times. OK, so what do we know about protracted periods of prohibition? Quite a bit as it turns out. The US prohibition is probably the most prominent natural experiment that we have.

Contrary to popular belief, if you make something that people want illegal, it doesn’t just go away. Worth remembering that marijuana was (or still is, I’m never really sure where we are on this) illegal and was still widely available and used. It’s been estimated that 70% of our cigarettes are effectively illegal as no government excise is being paid. What gives us any confidence that we can effectively police an alcohol ban, even if it was a good idea?

We sometimes forget that it’s not the government that decides if something is a needed by people; we do that for ourselves. In the case of the 1920’s when the US outlawed alcohol, it created an enormous black market. The demand didn’t go away, people just started buying it from illegal sources. Powerful gangs emerged to smuggle it in, set up underground bars where it could be served, corrupt law enforcement and politicians, and fight brutal battles against one another for control of the lucrative black market in booze. Instead of Prohibition ending drinking in the US, people continued drinking, but it created an environment of lawlessness and ultimately created organized crime in America. What had once been unorganized street gangs, these small-time criminals gradually found themselves in control of the US booze market - this is when men like ‘’Scarface’’ Al Capone, and The Italian-American Mafia rose to prominence. Nice chaps, just what we need in SA.

“Aha, but that was almost 100 years ago,” I hear you say. Or, “But this is only temporary.” The problem is the laws of economics are like those of physics – they are always with us, they don’t go away, and they don’t really care about well-meaning intentions. We’ve created a situation where people want to drink (and smoke for that matter) and the only way to do that is to break the law and buy it from a criminal. Once that opportunity has been created it becomes difficult to remove – the longer we leave it, the more established organized crime becomes, the more money it makes, and the more able and incentivised it becomes to try use some of that money it is generating to affect the political process by corrupting politicians and law makers. We are not a country known for being able to control corruption, and this is setting the scene for a horrendous and very predictable outcome if it continues.

To some people it seems inappropriate to be talking about money at a time when so many people’s lives seem to be at risk, but any sensible discussion about the restriction on alcohol sales needs to acknowledge the enormous contribution that excise makes to our tax intake. Personally I don’t find the money argument (as in, there will be much less if we continue to ban booze) to be the most important. But at a time when our government needs to generate as much revenue as possible, it does seem counter-intuitive to force underground an industry that contributes so significantly to our economy (R128bn was the estimate in 2018).

Every bottle of spirits that we drink sees about R70 of excise going to the state to build school, roads, hospitals and all the things that we value in a functioning society and will need to support our recovery once Covid has passed. Simple maths tells us that the booze ban means we will need alternative sources of taxation to fill the gap created by the billions in lost excise revenue – and with the economy on its knees it’s not clear that there are any.

But perhaps the most important case for the sale of alcohol to be reinstated is that our democracy is founded on principles that assume individuals are responsible for their own lives. The argument for Liberty, for its own sake, is a strong one. For some reason most people don’t seem to find this particularly compelling, which I find strange given our authoritarian history.

I think the issue with Liberty is that it sounds a bit like an academic concept…until it doesn’t. If the government can take away your right to have a drink, or a smoke, they can take away many other things too when they choose. If we give them the space to do this, then we open the door a little for a future when bureaucrats can decide that they don’t like what you read, what TV you decide to watch, which church you visit, what language you talk to your kids, or how you make a living. The list of things government might want to change is a never-ending one, and once they get going history suggests they’re difficult to stop.

As far as I’m concerned, the role of a government is to provide a safe environment for individuals ultimately to live their own lives. And as long as we don’t hurt those around us, then we should be allowed generally to pursue our own path to fulfilment. Some people might reach their potential, and others might not, but that’s the crux of this great experience and responsibility that we call life. And it’s not up to government to impose behavioural rules because they’ve decided my wellbeing will be enhanced; that was my parent’s job and now that I’m an adult, it’s mine.

There are lots of good reasons why the alcohol ban is a bad idea, not the least of which is that South Africans like standing around a braai with a beer, or enjoying a bottle of wine with their partners, or having a dop with mates (even if it’s over Zoom), or any of the other occasions when we might want a drink. And for a lot of us, these times are some of the most memorable that we have with good friends or our partners. So, go on Mr President, let us have a drink – I’ll be the first to buy you one.

Rowan Leibbrandt is a founding co-owner of premium drinks company, Truman & Orange.


Well said
 

Stuey74

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2014
Messages
966
People always ask that question as though the reader should know the answer. I’m still waiting to find out what it is. Must be some secret that outsiders don’t know.

Running the risk that you are just trolling here - it's a rhetorical question
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
30,793
People always ask that question as though the reader should know the answer. I’m still waiting to find out what it is. Must be some secret that outsiders don’t know.
"If a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
If a bear's in the woods and no one is around to see it, does it ****? :ROFL:
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
30,793
We need to get the rural areas to stop voting ANC, they aren't generally on the interwebs, but they are where ANC remains strong.
They are also where the most booze is sold. Funny how since Zuma the ANC has done everything to alienate people and they don't even see it.
 

psk2004

Active Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
32
Its time for the Government and its cronies (who defraud) to stop acting as a Nanny State
 

Fantomex108

Active Member
Joined
Jun 10, 2016
Messages
51
Ban should be lifted. All they are doing with the ban is increasing illegal trade on those items. Instead of focusing on that the government should focus on upgrading the healthcare system - if anything, this pandemic showed us that healthcare needs to be worked on.
 
Top