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Does South Africa have the most toxic race-relations in the World?

newjourno

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
127
#1
Okay, I am going to give a non-PC account. I do think that contrary to popular belief, the Steve Hofmeyr and Julius Malema type characters are less rare than most of us would like to believe. I am not saying all South African's stoop to their levels, but sadly finding people who do is not really a hard task.

Now I grew up with a Mandela mindset that all of us look out for one another and view each other as equals but the older I got, the more I realized that this was not the case.

I have had friends and mingled with people of different races and I noticed this.

Are there any other countries which are more toxic than this?
 

thechamp

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Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
14,550
#2
To me the Mandela mindset was all about building a good foundation for us as a country to find a way to tackle the inequalities created by our past and find solutions together as the people of SA, years later it is clear that we are nowhere close to finding each other on the way forward, some believe that something must be done to change things some believe that everything will sort itself out and the worst, some believe that there is simply nothing wrong.
 

newjourno

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Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
127
#3
To me the Mandela mindset was all about building a good foundation for us as a country to find a way to tackle the inequalities created by our past and find solutions together as the people of SA, years later it is clear that we are nowhere close to finding each other on the way forward, some believe that something must be done to change things some believe that everything will sort itself out and the worst, some believe that there is simply nothing wrong.
The latter you mention are usually rational people but who do not venture out and interact with people apart from their own. It tends to be a lot of people from the upper echelons of society. I know because I was once in the same camp.

I have had plenty of non PC conversations with people of different races and it is scary what I have heard. Race-relations in SA are not healthy. We are now at a stage where Mandela is hated by the far-left and far-right for polar opposite reasons. Some on the far-left even now equate Mandela with the Apartheid presidents. It is odd that the modern day far-right i.e Steve Hofmeyr allies and far-left i.e EFF supporters have different goals but what they share in common is a hatred of Nelson Mandela.
 

Nick333

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Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
29,469
#4
Okay, I am going to give a non-PC account. I do think that contrary to popular belief, the Steve Hofmeyr and Julius Malema type characters are less rare than most of us would like to believe. I am not saying all South African's stoop to their levels, but sadly finding people who do is not really a hard task.

Now I grew up with a Mandela mindset that all of us look out for one another and view each other as equals but the older I got, the more I realized that this was not the case.

I have had friends and mingled with people of different races and I noticed this.

Are there any other countries which are more toxic than this?
What has Steve Hofmeyer said or done to be lumped in with Malema? Honest question. Malema calls white people thieves and says things like we won't kill white people... yet. Hofmeyer says he's proud to be Afikaans and should be allowed to maintain his culture.
 

Nick333

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Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
29,469
#5
To me the Mandela mindset was all about building a good foundation for us as a country to find a way to tackle the inequalities created by our past and find solutions together as the people of SA, years later it is clear that we are nowhere close to finding each other on the way forward, some believe that something must be done to change things some believe that everything will sort itself out and the worst, some believe that there is simply nothing wrong.
I think it's probably too late to do anything about it. Education was the key to uplifting black people and that ball has been thoroughly dropped.

I'm honestly at a loss as to what black people expect from whites.
 

newjourno

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
127
#6
What has Steve Hofmeyer said or done to be lumped in with Malema? Honest question. Malema calls white people thieves and says things like we won't kill white people... yet. Hofmeyer says he's proud to be Afikaans and should be allowed to maintain his culture.
Are you serious?

Hofmeyr has demeaned black people numerous times. He literally is an Apartheid apologist, glamorizes the Apartheid flag and guys like Verwoerd etc who were blatant anti-black racists and most white Afrikaners I have interacted with also think that the man is an idiot. If you defend Hofmeyr, you are part of the problem I mentioned.

Also lumping black people together as a monolith is unfair. There are black people with views across the political spectrum just as there are white, Indian and colored people.
 

Nick333

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Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
29,469
#7
Are you serious?

Hofmeyr has demeaned black people numerous times. He literally is an Apartheid apologist. If you defend Hofmeyr, you are part of the problem I mentioned.
Demeaned black people how? As for the apartheid apologist thing, maybe. I think if you think that defending apartheid is equal to flirting with threatening genocide and advocating just taking peoples property because they are thieves then I think you might be the problem.
 

newjourno

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
127
#8
Demeaned black people how? As for the apartheid apologist thing, maybe. I think if you think that defending apartheid is equal to flirting with threatening genocide and advocating just taking peoples property because they are thieves then I think you might be the problem.
Apartheid did include taking peoples property and they did flirt with genocide. There were nuclear weapons for a reason.
 

mmmig

Honorary Master
Joined
Mar 22, 2010
Messages
10,203
#9
Okay, I am going to give a non-PC account. I do think that contrary to popular belief, the Steve Hofmeyr and Julius Malema type characters are less rare than most of us would like to believe. I am not saying all South African's stoop to their levels, but sadly finding people who do is not really a hard task.

Now I grew up with a Mandela mindset that all of us look out for one another and view each other as equals but the older I got, the more I realized that this was not the case.

I have had friends and mingled with people of different races and I noticed this.

Are there any other countries which are more toxic than this?
As far as least racist places in the world South Africa probably ranks really high, this mostly due to the fact we have a diverse population, it's sometime easy to forget how monocultural and ethic homogenised most of the countries in the world is, which makes the people of these countries distrust people of other races and cultures.
 

thechamp

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Joined
Feb 26, 2011
Messages
14,550
#12
As far as least racist places in the world South Africa probably ranks really high, this mostly due to the fact we have a diverse population, it's sometime easy to forget how monocultural and ethic homogenised most of the countries in the world is, which makes the people of these countries distrust people of other races and cultures.
Good point.
 

Moto Guzzi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 24, 2004
Messages
311
#13
Man, to understand origins of difference between groups you have to take political ideologies into account and circuimstances and factors that led up to the situation, today called racism. Unfortunately our lifetimes per person is about 70 years, minute in many generations over many thousands of years.
Today racism is kept alive at all costs it seems, walk down the street I dont see it, open the internet and within seconds, there it is. Is that because the internet based on a digital backbone is abstract and represent thoughts-?
You will stay confused if you focus on the current situation. Why are some groups constructive and other groups destructive-?
 

Nick333

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Nov 17, 2005
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29,469
#14
That does not change the fact that Hofmeyr condones the injustices by advocating support for it so he IS as bad as Malema.
Well, I'm not convinced he has (citation needed), but even if he has if you can't tell the difference between discussing history and advocating that land be taken by force if necessary, then you are the problem. One is capable of hurting feelings only and the other is advocating violence. Frankly, if you want to know what the race problem in SA is about, it's about the majority thinking their feelings are more important than reality. This is why white people get huge fines and jail time for saying racist shyt and black people only have to apologise for literally advocating genocide.

I'm going to ask again, because I have no clue: what is it that white people can do to make the majority of black people's lives better? Apologising for my parents and grand parents wrong doings is not going to educate the majority, or give them decent homes and jobs.

I'm still waiting to hear how Hofmeyer has demeaned blacks, btw.
 

newjourno

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
127
#15
As far as least racist places in the world South Africa probably ranks really high, this mostly due to the fact we have a diverse population, it's sometime easy to forget how monocultural and ethic homogenised most of the countries in the world is, which makes the people of these countries distrust people of other races and cultures.

Questionable.
Well, I'm not convinced he has (citation needed), but even if he has if you can't tell the difference between discussing history and advocating that land be taken by force if necessary, then you are the problem. One is capable of hurting feelings only and the other is advocating violence. Frankly, if you want to know what the race problem in SA is about, it's about the majority thinking their feelings are more important than reality. This is why white people get huge fines and jail time for saying racist shyt and black people only have to apologise for literally advocating genocide.

I'm going to ask again, because I have no clue: what is it that white people can do to make the majority of black people's lives better? Apologising for my parents and grand parents wrong doings is not going to educate the majority, or give them decent homes and jobs.

I'm still waiting to hear how Hofmeyer has demeaned blacks, btw.

Endorsing and idolizing literal white supremacists.
 

Nick333

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Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
29,469
#16
Questionable.



Endorsing and idolizing literal white supremacists.
Which he has literally done when? You've made a serious claim against Hofmeyer and offered literally zero evidence for your claims. How can we have a serious discussion about anything, when as far as I can tell, you are talking nonsense?

This might be another problem when it comes to race - there is no burden of proof when accusing a white person of racism. Maybe problem is that the problem exist mainly in peoples heads.
 

Nick333

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Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
29,469
#18
It doesn't even matter whether Steve Hofmeyer is a racist or thinks Apartheid was awesome, he has no power to affect the lives and future of the vast majority of people in this country. Malema and his ilk have the power to steer this country right down the toilet.
 

Sl8er

Executive Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2010
Messages
6,803
#19
Well, I'm not convinced he has (citation needed), but even if he has if you can't tell the difference between discussing history and advocating that land be taken by force if necessary, then you are the problem. One is capable of hurting feelings only and the other is advocating violence. Frankly, if you want to know what the race problem in SA is about, it's about the majority thinking their feelings are more important than reality. This is why white people get huge fines and jail time for saying racist shyt and black people only have to apologise for literally advocating genocide.

I'm going to ask again, because I have no clue: what is it that white people can do to make the majority of black people's lives better? Apologising for my parents and grand parents wrong doings is not going to educate the majority, or give them decent homes and jobs.

I'm still waiting to hear how Hofmeyer has demeaned blacks, btw.
Nick, I wouldn't bother if I were you.
This person sounds like that radio show host who interviewed that Afriforum guy the other day.
(When the dude explained that apartheid was legal and the host couldn't grasp the concept that he was stating a fact, not condoning it.)

(-_-)

Anyway....
 
Last edited:

Sinbad

Honorary Master
Joined
Jun 5, 2006
Messages
62,010
#20
No, we don't.
Media and politicians like to generate the impression that we do, it's good for sales and good for votes.

People in the ground are in the main good people who just want to get along and get in on life
 
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