Does the average South African even understand the concept of Democracy?

Zen17h

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As for the Socrates 'hated' democracy quip, it was more his disdain that anybody could vote vs. only people of rational mind and thought should vote.
I feel this is still very relevant to the present situation
 

Bobbin

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Democracy is a farce, especially in a nation such as ours where there are several different cultures and languages.
100 people on a ship out at sea. Some wish to travel eastward, some wish to travel westward. What's the best course of action?

1. Captain's word is final?
2. Cast an executive vote, a board of senior sailors and high ranking officials decides their fate?
3. Cast a public vote of majority, the direction supported by 51 people or more decides their fate?
4. Cast a public vote of unanimity, they move only when 100% agree on a direction?

Which is the moral choice? Curious to know what people would choose or what alternatives there might be :)
 

Nanfeishen

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simple answer, No!
We are still dealing with tribalism in S.A. , something the Nats did so well was to divide the country in such a way that society was all about "tribes" Blacks, whites, indians, coloureds etc.
We havent really thrown that off in any big way yet.
 

saturnz

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100 people on a ship out at sea. Some wish to travel eastward, some wish to travel westward. What's the best course of action?

1. Captain's word is final?
2. Cast an executive vote, a board of senior sailors and high ranking officials decides their fate?
3. Cast a public vote of majority, the direction supported by 51 people or more decides their fate?
4. Cast a public vote of unanimity, they move only when 100% agree on a direction?

Which is the moral choice? Curious to know what people would choose or what alternatives there might be :)
People got onto a ship and then decided which way to go?

That's not how it works.
 

Ponderer

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100 people on a ship out at sea. Some wish to travel eastward, some wish to travel westward. What's the best course of action?

1. Captain's word is final?
2. Cast an executive vote, a board of senior sailors and high ranking officials decides their fate?
3. Cast a public vote of majority, the direction supported by 51 people or more decides their fate?
4. Cast a public vote of unanimity, they move only when 100% agree on a direction?

Which is the moral choice? Curious to know what people would choose or what alternatives there might be :)
Who is the owner of the ship, what is the purpose of the voyage, and why is the 100 people on the ship?
 

Lupus

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The average South African can barely read. If we're talking averages in a population of 58 million where 55 million don't work and they've not had proper education we can assume the average is really, really, really low.
 

Bobbin

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People got onto a ship and then decided which way to go?

That's not how it works.
It's a thought experiment. When it comes to any societal decision who should have the power to decide. Think of the direction of the ship as the direction of a country.

A captain with absolute power would be a dictator, for example.
 

Bobbin

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Who is the owner of the ship, what is the purpose of the voyage, and why is the 100 people on the ship?
It's a thought experiment. When it comes to any societal decision who should have the power to decide. Think of the direction of the ship as the direction of a country.

A captain with absolute power would be a dictator, for example.
 

saturnz

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It's a thought experiment. When it comes to any societal decision who should have the power to decide. Think of the direction of the ship as the direction of a country.

A captain with absolute power would be a dictator, for example.

its a dumb thought experiment
 

Ponderer

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It's a thought experiment. When it comes to any societal decision who should have the power to decide. Think of the direction of the ship as the direction of a country.

A captain with absolute power would be a dictator, for example.
Its not a thought experiment - it is quite clearly an analogy of sorts.
What has your analogy to do with democracy?

If you think the analogy is pertinent, you must then provide the additional requested information.
Who is the owner of the ship, what is the purpose of the voyage, and in what capacity is the 100 people on the ship.
 

Bobbin

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Who is the owner of the ship, what is the purpose of the voyage, and why is the 100 people on the ship?
To answer your questions more precisely @Ponderer...

The owner of the ship is based on the method. Dictatorshop, Minoritarianism, Democracy or Unanimity (If such a thing were possible).

The purpose of the voyage is somewhat irrelevant, you can assign any purpose. It's not as though you can swap and change rulership in a country to suit purpose in any event.

100 is an arbitrary number, just to associate 51 being a majority. It could be a 1000, or a million on an island even.
 

saturnz

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Okay, what's probably dumb - and deeply concerning - is that you don't think of challenges like this before you open your mouth in debate.
a challenge?

you want to compare a boat to a country...

is there any academic you are aware of who did this thought exercise and published the results?
 

Bobbin

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Its not a thought experiment - it is quite clearly an analogy of sorts.
What has your analogy to do with democracy?

If you think the analogy is pertinent, you must then provide the additional requested information.
Who is the owner of the ship, what is the purpose of the voyage, and in what capacity is the 100 people on the ship.
It's my post, therefore if I say it's a thought experiment then it damn well is a thought experiment. An analogy is merely used to convey the idea.

The idea is to ascertain what one thinks is the correct social order of rulership in any given circumstance. Put 100 people on an island, if you don't like the ship - doesn't matter.
 

Bobbin

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I'm starting to wonder if Ponderer and SaturnZ has Aphantasia.
a challenge?

you want to compare a boat to a country...

is there any academic you are aware of who did this thought exercise and published the results?
Not that I'm aware of, hence a thought experiment is the only way to ascertain what everyone thinks. If you feel that the number of people has a drastic effect on the morality and nature of rulership required then instead of being an ass you can simply add that to the pool of discussion.

Note the final sentence - " Curious to know what people would choose or what alternatives there might be"
 

rambo919

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Generally would it not matter most what circumstances the ship/island finds itself in? There is no catchall for all circumstances which is why militaries have multiple secondary structures of power.
 

Cray

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It's my post, therefore if I say it's a thought experiment then it damn well is a thought experiment. An analogy is merely used to convey the idea.

The idea is to ascertain what one thinks is the correct social order of rulership in any given circumstance. Put 100 people on an island, if you don't like the ship - doesn't matter.
"Lord of the flies" comes to mind...
 

Ponderer

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To answer your questions more precisely @Ponderer...

The owner of the ship is based on the method. Dictatorshop, Minoritarianism, Democracy or Unanimity (If such a thing were possible).

The purpose of the voyage is somewhat irrelevant, you can assign any purpose. It's not as though you can swap and change rulership in a country to suit purpose in any event.

100 is an arbitrary number, just to associate 51 being a majority. It could be a 1000, or a million on an island even.
Its your analogy, not mine.

I repeat.
What has your analogy to do with democracy?
If you think the analogy is pertinent, you must then provide the additional requested information.
Who is the owner of the ship, what is the purpose of the voyage, and in what capacity is the 100 people on the ship?
 
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