Does the average South African even understand the concept of Democracy?

Bobbin

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How is your "thought experiment" (ship with 100 people) coming along?
What is it you tried to say about democracy with/using the "ship with 100 people" thing?
Democracy serves the interests of a majority. It is not concerned with morality, only that the needs/wants/whims/feelings of the majority is served. There is no incentive for the majority to act morally on a minority in a democratic system.

Is it the best system? Well perhaps that's a discussion worth having. The ship just makes things easier to grasp when it comes to assessing group dynamics, the degrees of coercion required and some thoughts on the implications.

The thread is about how people of SA don't understand democracy. The ship portrays, in a simplified manner, the difficulty of all basic alternatives including democracy itself. No use complaining about something when there isn't much to be done about it.
 

RedViking

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Yes. And if they don't, you beat them or threaten them till they get it.
 

saturnz

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Stop relying on others so much and do your own homework
you are the one that made the statement, you have to back it up

I don't have to do your home work.

4. Always state the sources of you facts. If you cannot source it, then don't bother using it or state it as assumed truth and wait for somebody to knock it over. If nobody can that truth shall stand until proven otherwise.
 

Bobbin

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you do realise that the majority of people in this country do not vote right

out of the 100 people on your boat, maybe 30 will actually vote
Fair point. They still vote under a democratic system though. The outcome is weighed democratically. That's the rules we're all forced to play by.

If it were a dictatorship then 99 people wouldn't have any say.
 
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Ponderer

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the boat is an issue, democracies do not operate in isolation, people come into the country, they leave the country, meaning there are other boats also floating around

and when we take those 100 people, are they original "boatanians"- meaning have they always been on the boat, are they all the same age? are we to assume they all can participate in this democracy? not everyone can participate in a country democracy, why are we assuming everyone can when its a boat
That is why I asked the poster for the additional information.
The boat analogy is meaningless without that information.
 

Geoff.D

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The question should be rather, does the average South African have a good frame of reference to understand democracy?

And in my experience, the answer is no. I realized this when we took our domestic worker along to the Western Cape from Gauteng these holidays. We always promised we will show her the ocean. Firstly, she has never been further than Limpopo. We had to explain we are traveling through the Free State, Eastern Cape etc. To her, it was something new. Also, she believed that the ocean is just one big lake. I had to show a map of the world to show her how big it is.

Then you need to ask, if a person that stays in a country doesn’t even have the knowledge of their own country, how can they understand how democracy work? Also, they are more susceptible to manipulation has they don’t know any better. They will easier believe what is said to them because they don’t have to knowledge to challenge it.

Therefore, my conclusion is that the education, may it be the previous apartheid or the new education system, has failed the common South African.
Based on this observation, the same applies to the average American as well. I met someone in Fort Lauderdale a few years back that had never travelled a short way up the coast to Disneyland. In fact he had never even been to the centre of Miami.

The average World citizen is an ignorant and totally dysfunctional a- hole.
 

saturnz

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Fair point. They still vote under a democratic system though. The outcome is weighed democratically. That's the rules we're all forced to play by.
its not a fair point, its an obvious problem

in modern day democratic systems, the reality of the situation is that a minority rules the majority
 

Bobbin

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its not a fair point, its an obvious problem

in modern day democratic systems, the reality of the situation is that a minority rules the majority
This seems a little out of scope on the morality of ruler-ship (see what I did there :p), but another interesting discussion I feel. Spot on.

To clarify, here we're assuming a corrupted democracy no? i.e. the voters "choice" is a farce and the people with money/power are the greatest influencers.

I think that's a major problem too. It's a big circus :(
 

Splinter

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its not a fair point, its an obvious problem

in modern day democratic systems, the reality of the situation is that a minority rules the majority
Incorrect, as usual. All can vote. To not vote is itself a choice (and a vote)
 

saturnz

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This seems a little out of scope on the morality of ruler-ship (see what I did there :p), but another interesting discussion I feel. Spot on.

To clarify, here we're assuming a corrupted democracy no? i.e. the voters "choice" is a farce and the people with money/power are the greatest influencers.

I think that's a major problem too. It's a big circus :(
*sigh*
 

Geoff.D

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They interviewed Bloomberg last night. And the pick up I got was how much money influences things in the American system. He can't do lots of things in his campaign because he does not have certain backing partners - he is financing his own campaign almost entirely himself.
Most credible of the candidates interviewed so far.
Very careful not to defame anyone --
All he would say about trump is that trump is known to be rather free and easy with how he counts strokes when playing golf.
 
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