Domestic worker taking me to CCMA

purple face said:
But a lot of people on here know what they are talking about and they are giving you advice so you can be prepared for what's to come. With the CCMA you need to know how things work.
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I am absorbing it. Just trying to understand why not go with truth. It can be subjective (from parent point of view) and emotional. But she was dismissed (fired) and NOT retrenched, when you fire someone you've got to have a good reason for it, not just I don't want you anymore, that's unfair. Act of negligence on the other said is fair reason for dismissal.
 
neoprema said:
Just an FYI, our domestic told us often at the Taxi ranks there's representative from whatever dodgy law firm is around asking if they're domestics and if their boss or madam has done anything wrong and if so they claim to represent you for FREE to the CCMA... Of course, its not free and the domestic is just being used and lied to about their rights..
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What do they get out of it ? Commission ?
 
Either way, we've got the date. Cannot wait to look in her face. Thanks all for the input, it is very very useful. I will post the outcome later.
 
It does not sound like misconduct is correct. Based on the circumstances and what you have revealed, it sounds more like negligence/gross negligence. Never take chances with your kids. I personally would have booted her at the 1st episode. Endangerment/gross negligence. For future reference, when you negotiate the exit, you must try and get them to sign a "agreement to terminate employment by mutual agreement". This will prevent them from taking you to the CCMA.
 
I had a Zim gardener, old guy about 65 who worked for me twice a week. Unfortunately it was just constant
Sasha32003 said:
Either way, we've got the date. Cannot wait to look in her face. Thanks all for the input, it is very very useful. I will post the outcome later.
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Due date doesn't matter, hit her hard with litigation and ensure she knows if you win or not, you're countering for all expenses incurred plus what she did to the child.

We had an employee we fired for stealing - literally he confessed to 3 staff members as well as other proof and 1 month later he took us to the CCMA claiming we fired him without cause. One thing we did wrong was not get him to sign the mutual termination so that he couldn't go to CCMA like @ZAmoose said. That was our mistake

I got our lawyer to reply saying we note this, and also we're proceeding with laying criminal charges at the police station for loss of our goods.

He was scaly, he first calls me with "The loss of the goods was not that high value it won't be worth going this route with your lawyer."

So I replied "Oh, no you seem to think i'm interested in the money. I'm not, our company has lots and lots to spend on legal funds. This is just because you think you can take advantage of us that i'm saying let's do this! See you in court. Also, when we win we'll be countering for all the legal fees. We use Werksmans and Norton Rose, I think i'll get both to work this case just to be sure.

2 days later I get an email that he would like to retract the CCMA thing. I said no, you come to our office, and you sign a document retracting it in front of our lawyers. Which he did, and i dropped my side. Cost me around R50k and was worth every penny.

People think they can steal from you, and treat you badly - after we even said when we fired him that because he was undergoing financial strain we would not lay criminal charges for the theft. And the he does that... that's when i lose it...
 
Sasha32003 said:
I am absorbing it. Just trying to understand why not go with truth. It can be subjective (from parent point of view) and emotional. But she was dismissed (fired) and NOT retrenched, when you fire someone you've got to have a good reason for it, not just I don't want you anymore, that's unfair. Act of negligence on the other said is fair reason for dismissal.
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I think the point is you need a nanny first and a maid second. Where she was a maid first and failed at the nanny part. You only discovered this when your yongest was born even though she agreed at contract stage.

So you should highlight that you need someone to first and foremost look after the children as stated in the contract and that she was not capable of doing that even after multiple opertunities were given to her.

So state that you need a nanny and not a maid and that there was an irretrievable breakdown in trust after your child was endangered on several occasions.
 
neoprema said:
I had a Zim gardener, old guy about 65 who worked for me twice a week. Unfortunately it was just constant

Due date doesn't matter, hit her hard with litigation and ensure she knows if you win or not, you're countering for all expenses incurred plus what she did to the child.

We had an employee we fired for stealing - literally he confessed to 3 staff members as well as other proof and 1 month later he took us to the CCMA claiming we fired him without cause. One thing we did wrong was not get him to sign the mutual termination so that he couldn't go to CCMA like @ZAmoose said. That was our mistake

I got our lawyer to reply saying we note this, and also we're proceeding with laying criminal charges at the police station for loss of our goods.

He was scaly, he first calls me with "The loss of the goods was not that high value it won't be worth going this route with your lawyer."

So I replied "Oh, no you seem to think i'm interested in the money. I'm not, our company has lots and lots to spend on legal funds. This is just because you think you can take advantage of us that i'm saying let's do this! See you in court. Also, when we win we'll be countering for all the legal fees. We use Werksmans and Norton Rose, I think i'll get both to work this case just to be sure.

2 days later I get an email that he would like to retract the CCMA thing. I said no, you come to our office, and you sign a document retracting it in front of our lawyers. Which he did, and i dropped my side. Cost me around R50k and was worth every penny.

People think they can steal from you, and treat you badly - after we even said when we fired him that because he was undergoing financial strain we would not lay criminal charges for the theft. And the he does that... that's when i lose it...
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Yeah, exactly. Ours said she was very happy with the pay and that she can rest a bit and thanked us for the job and support at difficult times .. not even week later we get a call.
 
They go home, tell someone, and hear about ccma and they are going to get lots of free money.
There our law protect us.
 
Sasha32003 said:
Hi guys,

I am in need for some advise here please - never been to this situation before.

We had a domestic worker, employed full time since 2018. She was not a greatest cleaner, but she had no other responsibilities and we generally made it work and had no conflicts during that time. We have also paid 60% of her salary during 4 months of COVID to keep her afloat.
Then in the beginning of this year I fell pregnant and also required child minding services of her which she stated she was capable of (our contract mentioned that as a possibility). However when a child was born, she just wasn’t interested and avoided taking care of it whenever she could. Twice putting child’s health in danger - left a pram in the sun causing first degree sun burns and once almost suffocating it by prams plastic rain cover.
She was warned several times in writing that if she did not put more care she would be dismissed, we have also given her an option to admit that she wasn’t capable and offer her retrenchment, but she didn’t take that up and insisted we give her chance to prove her capabilities.
Unfortunately there was no improvement and it just wasn’t possible for us to risk this further and wait for bigger more fatal mistakes. So we set down with her and notified of her dismissal, we have given her 1 month notice which she didn’t have to come to work + paid leave in full for the year - all in accordance with labour law and as per our contract, stating reason for dismissal as misconduct. We have also summarised it in writing and asked if she was satisfied with outcome which she replied she was and thanked us for the work.

However just a few days later we received a call from CCMA to come for the hearing for unfair dismissal demanding more compensation, she also lied about amount of years she worked for us by doubling it.

I don’t feel that we have done anything wrong or unfair, we also have nothing to hide, hence I don’t want to agree to her demands at hearing and totally at loss as to how to behave here …
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What was the outcome to this?
 
purple face said:
What was the outcome to this?
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Hi, apologies I did forget to update.

So the whole process was like many here were saying. CCMA guy asked us to make an offer and her to accept whatever we are giving.
We parted our ways at 2k +/- what it would be if we retrenched her instead of dismissing.

I can't get read of the feeling of extortion, but everything passes and this will too. I am glad we don't have her anymore, she showed very ugly side of hers at that hearing - laying a lot, being ugly about the baby etc.
 
People still haven't learned that domestics are not baby sitters. Don't know how parents can just leave their children like that with an inexperienced stranger who gets paid next to nothing and needs to take care of the child and clean their mess when they themselves can't even do it.
 
RedViking said:
People still haven't learned that domestics are not baby sitters. Don't know how parents can just leave their children like that with an inexperienced stranger who gets paid next to nothing and needs to take care of the child and clean their mess when they themselves can't even do it.
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I wouldn’t rush with inferences. With all respect sir you don’t know our family. I am from Eastern Europe, my grandparents lived in the mud house. I know how to clean and cook myself. We need a maid/baby sitter because it’s time to return to work, again myself and my husband are the sole providers for ourselves in the foreign country. So please spear your thought for someone u know. Also child minding is in her contract and she was always paid 80% above minimum wage with regular increases and 13th check.
 
Sensorei said:
Sounds like you'll be fine at the hearing. In future hire Malawians and Zimbabweans illegals. They work harder, they're more honest, aren't so entitled, are usually a lot smarter and more willing to learn. I will never employ the local entitled ANC and EFF voting charity cases again.
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+1
 
Sasha32003 said:
I wouldn’t rush with inferences. With all respect sir you don’t know our family. I am from Eastern Europe, my grandparents lived in the mud house. I know how to clean and cook myself. We need a maid/baby sitter because it’s time to return to work, again myself and my husband are the sole providers for ourselves in the foreign country. So please spear your thought for someone u know. Also child minding is in her contract and she was always paid 80% above minimum wage with regular increases and 13th check.
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I was called Sasha all my life until I came to SA.
Welcome to SA, it will get better and easier, you just need to get better at judging people.
 
Sasha32003 said:
I wouldn’t rush with inferences. With all respect sir you don’t know our family. I am from Eastern Europe, my grandparents lived in the mud house. I know how to clean and cook myself. We need a maid/baby sitter because it’s time to return to work, again myself and my husband are the sole providers for ourselves in the foreign country. So please spear your thought for someone u know. Also child minding is in her contract and she was always paid 80% above minimum wage with regular increases and 13th check.
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It's your kid that's left in the sun, not mine. Get a proper baby sitter if you can. This is Africa. Not Eastern Europe. Doesn't matter what you put in the contract, a baby sitter is not a domestic.
 
RedViking said:
It's your kid that's left in the sun, not mine. Get a proper baby sitter if you can. This is Africa. Not Eastern Europe. Doesn't matter what you put in the contract, a baby sitter is not a domestic.
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Learned the lesson a hard way, of course I did.
 
gosh I was tied to the back of my maid when I was a lighty whilst they cooked and cleaned the house, I'm sure we all were. Was great fun and comfortable, no complaints from me! Singing and milling around. Most old school South Africans were brought up that way.
 
Wrath of Khan said:
gosh I was tied to the back of my maid when I was a lighty whilst they cooked and cleaned the house, I'm sure we all were. Was great fun and comfortable, no complaints from me! Singing and milling around. Most old school South Africans were brought up that way.
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Hahahaha that's right, what child didn't grow up with pap and gravy as their first solids! My niece learnt to sit by being propped up in a cardboard box :). Good times.
 
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