Donald J. Trump: President of the USA Part II Covfefe

Unhappy438

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I got it partially wrong. As for the real outcome, that is still be determined. Or have you forgotten that?

greg maintained that removal of Acosta's privileges to the White Press Room was an Amendment 1 violation. What is interesting is that violating a whistle blower's rights by raiding the whistle blower's house while under those protections is outright dismissed as a conspiracy theories. Freedom of the press and whistle blowing go hand in hand.
The Trump administration has signaled they wont challenge anything so i dont see much of a different outcome and as for you being partially wrong, im just saying glass houses and stones etc. I cant comment much on the house of a whistle blower as im not up to speed.

Yeah, this is true. And Trump is Trump's own biggest risk right now. His words around all of this could come back and hurt him. But I don't think there is anything to the Russian collusion investigation at all. As for tax evasion, well, that's something that should be looked at.
Yes, the only reason this investigation exists is because of the way Trump fired Comey.
 
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I disagree. The best politicians have a moral force in their leadership, and the worst politicians as you point out, usurp people's moral sense.
Wouldn't that be an ethical force that the best politicians have?
As in ethics being an individual's code for the survival of society?
 

greg0205

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I disagree. The best politicians have a moral force in their leadership, and the worst politicians as you point out, usurp people's moral sense.
I'm with you on this which is why tre45on got the side-eye from me in that post.

The correct answer to Aquila's question is still ethics 'tho.
 

cerebus

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But I don't think there is anything to the Russian collusion investigation at all.
This despite Cohen's court admissions in the last couple of days?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics...plicate-trump-officials-lies-to-congress.html

[Cohen] specifically knew, consistent with [Trump]’s aim to dismiss and minimize the merit of the [special counsel] investigation, that [Trump] and his public spokespersons were seeking to portray contact with Russian representatives in any form by [Trump], the Campaign or the Trump Organization as having effectively terminated before the Iowa caucuses of February 1, 2016.
 

Emjay

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Ethics - an individual's code for the survival of society
Morals - society's code for the survival of the individual
Actually. Ethics is more morals in action.

Edit:

Never-mind. I am answering this from a legal and law perspective. From a philosophical perspective, I guess this is correct.
 

greg0205

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What's the difference? :confused:
Morality is your own view on what is right and wrong. It's the internal compass Emjay was talking about earlier, as it were... Ethics are external and they govern our conduct and interactions in groups. It's not murdering someone 'cos, as a people, we view it as wrong.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Actually. Ethics is more morals in action.

Edit:

Never-mind. I am answering this from a legal and law perspective. From a philosophical perspective, I guess this is correct.
I've never heard of this distinction. I think it's idiosyncratic. Whatever, though. I guess I'll just talk about "good behaviour" rather than ethics or morality. :p
 

Emjay

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I've never heard of this distinction. I think it's idiosyncratic. Whatever, though. I guess I'll just talk about "good behaviour" rather than ethics or morality. :p
Yeah, I really think they are interchangeable and don't have any impact on the discussion at hand.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Morality is your own view on what is right and wrong. It's the internal compass Emjay was talking about earlier, as it were... Ethics are external and they govern our conduct and interactions in groups. It's not murdering someone 'cos, as a people, we view it as wrong.
Ethos is the Greek word for behaviour/custom. Mores is the Latin word for the same thing.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/ethics
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/moral

They both refer to each other in their primary definition.

Anyway, you and Aquila are probably talking past each other.
 
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Morality is your own view on what is right and wrong. It's the internal compass Emjay was talking about earlier, as it were... Ethics are external and they govern our conduct and interactions in groups. It's not murdering someone 'cos, as a people, we view it as wrong.
I think you have it precisely 180 degrees around.:D

But don't mind me, I'm just an onlooker.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Morality is your own view on what is right and wrong. It's the internal compass Emjay was talking about earlier, as it were... Ethics are external and they govern our conduct and interactions in groups. It's not murdering someone 'cos, as a people, we view it as wrong.
Ok, if you're talking about ethics in the sence of a doctor's work ethic or a lawyers work ethic or whatever as opposed to morality, then fine. In the same sense we could talk about the work ethic of a hitman. So long as the hitman doesn't screw his clients out of money or not do a job he's agreed to do, a hitman would be ethical, even though he'd be clearly breaking the law by doing his job anywhere I can think of, and no doubt everyone would say "murder is immoral".

My point here is that political ethics is ruled by realpolitik and personal ("moral") judgements either way tend not to be appropriate to the landscape.
 

greg0205

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Ok, if you're talking about ethics in the sence of a doctor's work ethic or a lawyers work ethic or whatever as opposed to morality, then fine. In the same sense we could talk about the work ethic of a hitman. So long as the hitman doesn't screw his clients out of money or not do a job he's agreed to do, a hitman would be ethical, even though he'd be clearly breaking the law by doing his job anywhere I can think of, and no doubt everyone would say "murder is immoral".

My point here is that political ethics is ruled by realpolitik and personal ("moral") judgements either way tend not to be appropriate to the landscape.
But... The hitman's job would be viewed as unethical by the wider group of folk who aren't hitmen.

I'm sure the guests at the Continental Hotel think John Wick is a righteous dude... You and I might prefer to flee the scene when he starts to shoot folk up.

EDIT: I think that metaphor might fit politics and your point too.
 
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