Donald J. Trump: President of the USA Part II Covfefe

[scudsucker]

...and if we accept that one in four women have an abortion at some point.... This must overwhelm the extremely limited demand for foetal tissue by a factor of several hundred

 

[Emjay]

...and if we accept that one in four women have an abortion at some point.... This must overwhelm the extremely limited demand for foetal tissue by a factor of several hundred

You want to discuss the economics of selling baby tissue? If you want to do that, you need to understand the use of digoxin (which kills the baby before it is ripped apart) and how many abortions happen in the later stages of pregnancy. Digoxin destroys the tissue and viability of stem cells, so it is not used. Oh, and a baby can feel pain at that stage. Tissue harvest is not possible from abortions that use the suction and chemical methods, which is generally the procedures that are done early on. I think chemical abortions only happen up to 10 weeks. Suction up to 18, depending on the size of the baby.

Does the frequency talk to the morality of this, scudsucker?

 

[scudsucker]

A buyer sought out baby tissue from Planned Parenthood. They offered money in exchange for specific tissue and parts. Please, go watch the videos.
Or don't. *shrug*

Sure. Watch a debunked video that doesnt actually show any foetal tissue sales.

What is the market here, Emjay? Are foetuses being exported to Africa for witch doctors to use? Are they being sent to darkest Europe for crazy health rejuvenation clinics? Are they being used by a mad scientist in South America trying to build the uber-menschen?

Or do you think that maybe, scientists all over the world, from San Francisco to Beijing follow a strict code of ethics.

Which one of these is the most likely?

 

[Emjay]

Sure. Watch a debunked video that doesnt actually show any foetal tissue sales.

What is the market here, Emjay? Are foetuses being exported to Africa for witch doctors to use? Are they being sent to darkest Europe for crazy health rejuvenation clinics? Are they being used by a mad scientist in South America trying to build the uber-menschen?

Or do you think that maybe, scientists all over the world, from San Francisco to Beijing follow a strict code of ethics.

Which one of these is the most likely?

It was not debunked. The link is in my post. It is American companies using the tissue, and is not being exported. But, whatever. Build a narrative in your head. I put it out there. Use it. Don't.

 

[scudsucker]

This post is a complete non sequitur:

You want to discuss the economics of selling baby tissue? If you want to do that, you need to understand the use of digoxin (which kills the baby before it is ripped apart) and how many abortions happen in the later stages of pregnancy. Digoxin destroys the tissue and viability of stem cells, so it is not used. Oh, and a baby can feel pain at that stage. Tissue harvest is not possible from abortions that use the suction and chemical methods, which is generally the procedures that are done early on. I think chemical abortions only happen up to 10 weeks. Suction up to 18, depending on the size of the baby.

Does the frequency talk to the morality of this, scudsucker?

Frequency speaks to morality? Are you sure you know what on earth you are talking about? Had a couple of G&Ts at lunch maybe?

 

[Emjay]

This post is a complete nonn sequitur:

Frequency speaks to morality? Are you sure you know what on earth you are talking about? Had a couple of G&Ts at lunch maybe?

You are the one talking about supply vs demand. I was following your logic, and trying to understand what it has to do with anything.

Whether you believe tissue is being sold or not still does not have any bearing on the actual legislation which is being proposed.

 

[AlmightyBender]

how many abortions happen in the later stage of pregnancy..

1.3% fyi
https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

Also from that source 1/10 women in US get abortions not 1/4 so...

 

[Emjay]

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...merican-women-will-have-an-abortion-by-age-45

One in four American women will have an abortion by the age of 45, according to the Guttmacher Institute, the leading reproductive health research organization. This is down from one in three a few years ago – primarily due to increased usage of long-acting reversible contraception -- but it’s still a statistic that surprises many people.

One in 10 is still very high anyway.

 

[scudsucker]

If only, Emjay, if only... you yourself followed logical argument. But your responses to me have been all over the place. From posting debunked video as "proof" that aborted foetuses get sold to avoiding any kind of evidence that there is even a market for the tissue.

(hint: stem cell research, the only possible "market" for foetal tissue - outside medical schools who display them in formaldehyde - already is over supplied by donations of stem cells from placentas and foreskins (for the unfortunate boys who get chopped) and there is no scientific need for bits of foetus. The sale value of a bit of foetal tissue is zero.)

 

[Gingerbeardman]

1.3% fyi
https://www.cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/data_stats/abortion.htm

Also from that source 1/10 women in US get abortions not 1/4 so...

I don't see anything in your source that would justify such a claim.

On the other hand:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5678377/

Abortion is a common medical procedure and an important component of public health.1,2 In 2014, 926 190 abortions were performed in the United States; the abortion rate was 14.6 abortions per 1000 women aged 15 to 44 years, meaning that in that year 1.5% of women of reproductive age had an abortion.3 In 2008, it was estimated that 30% of women aged 15 to 44 years would have an abortion by age 45 years if the prevailing rate continued,4 and this figure is often used to demonstrate the commonality of abortion.2,5 However, the abortion rate has declined substantially since that time—14% between 2011 and 2014 alone3—and it is likely that the estimate of the lifetime incidence of abortion has also declined.

Edit: https://www.guttmacher.org/news-rel...ence-us-women-despite-dramatic-declines-rates

This source is more up to date and supports the 1/4 number Emjay quoted.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

If only, Emjay, if only... you yourself followed logical argument. But your responses to me have been all over the place. From posting debunked video as "proof" that aborted foetuses get sold to avoiding any kind of evidence that there is even a market for the tissue.

It wasn't debunked. You keep asserting BS, how is one supposed to respond?

 

[Emjay]

It wasn't debunked. You keep asserting BS, how is one supposed to respond?

I am not a moral arbiter, and if people want to debate with me, they can. Abortion is a very divisive topic, so, debate is good. This is not a partisan issue, but one that we should all look at and give due consideration on non-political and partisan grounds. I asked for that, and scudsucker proved he is not willing to be slightly open minded about it. There is over an hour of video in my initial link, so there was zero consideration.

People are pro-choice, I get it. If some believe that choice is more important that protecting the life an unborn child, that's ok too. Because I am not a moral arbiter, my opinion means nothing. Our morality positions have changed on many fronts such as LGBT rights, and transgender medicine, so it's only natural the boundaries will be pushed here.

 

[scudsucker]

It wasn't debunked. You keep asserting BS, how is one supposed to respond?

Oh, I don't know. Maybe research the background? The motives for which it was made? Even... and hold my hand here, this bit is going to be tough... the veracity of the video?

Regardless, not even the truest true believer could imagine that that video depicts a foetal body parts deal.

Also, both you and Emjay are not supplying a reason why anyone would buy foetal body parts, at any scale.

 

[scudsucker]

There is over an hour of video in my initial link, so there was zero consideration.

Oh Emjay! You have brought up the Xarog logical fallacy; wherein a poster posts an insanely long video and expects people to watch that batshit for hours before rebutting each "point" posited in said video.

Sorry, but no. Use your words.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Oh Emjay! You have brought up the Xarog logical fallacy; wherein a poster posts an insanely long video and expects people to watch that batshit for hours before rebutting each "point" posited in said video.

Sorry, but no. Use your words.

So you don't even know what's in it, but you'll claim it's debunked anyway. Nice.

 

[scudsucker]

So you don't even know what's in it, but you'll claim it's debunked anyway. Nice.

It's been debunked elsewhere. I actually bothered to do a little research.

Did you?

 

[AlmightyBender]

https://www.plannedparenthood.org/p...merican-women-will-have-an-abortion-by-age-45



One in 10 is still very high anyway.

True that

 

[Gingerbeardman]

It's been debunked elsewhere. I actually bothered to do a little research.

Yeah, any of your sources from 2019, or are you just going to continue to ignore what Emjay posted?

 

[C4Cat]

Oh Emjay! You have brought up the Xarog Gingerbeardman logical fallacy; wherein a poster posts an insanely long video and expects people to watch that batshit for hours before rebutting each "point" posited in said video.

Sorry, but no. Use your words.

FTFY - he changed his username

 

[scudsucker]

Yeah, any of your sources from 2019, or are you just going to continue to ignore what Emjay posted?

To be honest, I am far more likely to ignore you than Emjay. At least she is mature enough to discuss differing opinions with a level of honesty.