Donald J. Trump: President of the USA Part II Covfefe

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greg0205

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As I suspected, you have lumped all Conservatives into the "racist and sexist" category. I was so hoping you were not going down this road. My views on life and abortion have nothing to do with any Conservative morals, nor am I religious in any sense of the word. At all. I am not even spiritual. I however have a set of very basic morals, and abortion is one that runs counter to my morals. You are trying to make my views and Conservatism fit into your little boxes.

Are all law makers, and police officers, prosecutors, and entire juries Conservative, greg? But I am willing to bet you will be very closed off to any behavioral discussions as to why people of colour are incarcerated at higher rates than whites (in proportion to the population). I will give you a hint: take a look at the rate of homicide in the poor black areas and compare it to the rate of murder in the predominantly white areas. The rates of violence are also proportionally much higher. The idea of systemic racism absolves us of looking deeper into the actual causes. I suggest you start a separate thread and we can have a go around systemic racism.

You are also pushing for equality of outcome without trying to understand the underlying causes of why the status quo is. We are not having honest conversations about this. We are all on the side of equal opportunity, but personal agency is the biggest determining factor of anyone's success.

First part: That's why I said moral absolutism.

Second part: Well, just look at you assuming personal agency is a level playing field for folk like the CCH kids and inner city kids in Chicago. You know what that's called, don't you? Starts with a "p" and ends with "rivilege".
 

Gingerbeardman

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First part: That's why I said moral absolutism.
The real moral absolutism here is equality of outcome aka social justice, for social justice treats society as god and holds society as a whole responsible for eliminating all the differences between people, as if such a thing were even remotely possible, and that anything that isn't this equates to a moral failing.

And...
Second part: Well, just look at you assuming personal agency is a level playing field for folk like the CCH kids and inner city kids in Chicago. You know what that's called, don't you? Starts with a "p" and ends with "rivilege".
...its handmaiden is privilege, the thing that bestows total depravity on those who have it better than the rest, which makes them guilty if they don't admit that they have to hammer themselves down to everyone else's level.

Inner city kids in Chicago have Democrat privilege. They have the benefit of adhering to a set of cultural values that places no value on the family (which incidentally is the best wealth producing social unit ever discovered in history), follows social policies that pay women for having children out of wedlock, rendering women unwilling to commit to a husband because that's just how hypergamous female psychology works, and generally creating the single biggest socio-economic risk factor of delinquincy/criminality in men known to sociology: not having a father in the home.

In the real world, things aren't equal. We're all different heights, intelligences, races, sexes, and society can't remove those differences. Outcomes will never be equal, and pretending otherwise is delusional utopianism that puts entire civilisations at risk. If you make stupid life decisions, it's not the job of society to rescue you from the bad consequences. The religion of victimhood is a crime against humanity which promotes nothing but learned helplessness; shame to those who fall for it, but it is they and nobody else that has to own the consequences.

The right to equality is the right to not be legally prevented from a shot at something just because you don't have the right class or sex or skin colour. The right to equality, if it is a right, is a negative one, not a positive one.
 

Emjay

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Sorry, Greg. I am glad GBM put a response together. This is where I check out. I cannot argue against social Marxism like this.
 

greg0205

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The real moral absolutism here is equality of outcome aka social justice, for social justice treats society as god and holds society as a whole responsible for eliminating all the differences between people, as if such a thing were even remotely possible, and that anything that isn't this equates to a moral failing.

And...

...its handmaiden is privilege, the thing that bestows total depravity on those who have it better than the rest, which makes them guilty if they don't admit that they have to hammer themselves down to everyone else's level.

Inner city kids in Chicago have Democrat privilege. They have the benefit of adhering to a set of cultural values that places no value on the family (which incidentally is the best wealth producing social unit ever discovered in history), follows social policies that pay women for having children out of wedlock, rendering women unwilling to commit to a husband because that's just how hypergamous female psychology works, and generally creating the single biggest socio-economic risk factor of delinquincy/criminality in men known to sociology: not having a father in the home.

In the real world, things aren't equal. We're all different heights, intelligences, races, sexes, and society can't remove those differences. Outcomes will never be equal, and pretending otherwise is delusional utopianism that puts entire civilisations at risk. If you make stupid life decisions, it's not the job of society to rescue you from the bad consequences. The religion of victimhood is a crime against humanity which promotes nothing but learned helplessness; shame to those who fall for it, but it is they and nobody else that has to own the consequences.

The right to equality is the right to not be legally prevented from a shot at something just because you don't have the right class or sex or skin colour. The right to equality, if it is a right, is a negative one, not a positive one.

Will Lind, is that you?
 

cerebus

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Sorry, Greg. I am glad GBM put a response together. This is where I check out. I cannot argue against social Marxism like this.

Rage quitting the debate while claiming the moral high ground? How totally uncharacteristic of you
 

Emjay

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Rage quitting the debate while claiming the moral high ground? How totally uncharacteristic of you

There is no rage or moral high ground, cerebus. This topic has been discussed to death on these forums. If you want to make a separate thread, but all means, go ahead. Or go ahead and set out your thoughts or counter points. I don't have time to write an essay, and I don't think it has any positive outcome.
 

Gingerbeardman

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Ooh, it's just like Top Trumps except, you know, not with cars.
Ah, well in that case, let me play James Lindsay, of recent "grievance studies" fame:


You were objecting to Christian morality earlier, so you might wanna take some tips. "Total depravity" is the watchword.
 

cerebus

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There is no rage or moral high ground, cerebus. This topic has been discussed to death on these forums. If you want to make a separate thread, but all means, go ahead. Or go ahead and set out your thoughts or counter points. I don't have time to write an essay, and I don't think it has any positive outcome.

It looked as though you were refusing to continue the debate with Greg on the basis that he was a cultural Marxist, whatever that term is supposed to mean
 

OrbitalDawn

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Sorry, Greg. I am glad GBM put a response together. This is where I check out. I cannot argue against social Marxism like this.

Do you agree with his obviously bigoted statement that "inner city kids in Chicago" (i.e. black people) have a culture that doesn't value family?
 

greg0205

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First, I love Ari's show.
Second, I can't imagine a world where Fox would have the reverse of this panel on.
Third, watching it you realise why *everyone* on the tre45on campaign and in the admin is in legal jeopardy.
Fourth, every one of these guys must have looked like patsies to Russia during the campaign.
Fifth, Roger Stone? One of these guys has given him up for sure.
Sixth, the *best* people.

For folk not up to speed.

Carter Page is the guy the feds got the FISA on. Michael Caputo, Sam Nunberg and Jerome Corsi all orbit Roger Stone, Wikileaks and Russians offering hacked DNC mails.

It's like a car crash without the violence... You can't look away 'tho.

 

Unhappy438

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Do you agree with his obviously bigoted statement that "inner city kids in Chicago" (i.e. black people) have a culture that doesn't value family?

Why is it bigoted? Its pretty true actually for African Americans in general. They have by far the highest percentage of single parent families amongst ethnic groups. Its an issue that needs looking into if inequality is to be addressed.
 

access

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Why is it bigoted? Its pretty true actually for African Americans in general. They have by far the highest percentage of single parent families amongst ethnic groups. Its an issue that needs looking into if inequality is to be addressed.

and to add to that it, is said that it is especially the fatherless families that are mostly troublesome.
 

greg0205

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tre45on's budget proposal fails 50-47 in the Senate. Needed 60 votes.

Next up, the Dems clean CR...


EDIT: Dem plan gets 52 votes. Needed 60.

Lamar Alexander, Susan Collins, Cory Gardner, Johnny Isakson, Lisa Murkowski and Mitt Romney voted with Dems.

Side note: There are 47 Dem and 53 Repub Senators and -->

"I think we have far more unity than the Democrats" - Donald J Trump two weeks ago.
"Never seen the Republican Party so unified" - Donald J Trump last week.
 
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Emjay

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Do you agree with his obviously bigoted statement that "inner city kids in Chicago" (i.e. black people) have a culture that doesn't value family?

My apologies. The 70% single mother rate means that they do not value a nuclear family. A dual income family is probably the best way to climb up the economic ladder. But sure, I am sure you feel better because you called me bigoted.

And this is why I will not engage with this rubbish. Cerebus, this is what a moral high ground looks like.
 

Lucas Buck

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My apologies. The 70% single mother rate means that they do not value a nuclear family. A dual income family is probably the best way to climb up the economic ladder. But sure, I am sure you feel better because you called me bigoted.

And this is why I will not engage with this rubbish. Cerebus, this is what a moral high ground looks like.
I think that he was referring to the gingerbread man and not you. Just because it's a single parent family it doesn't mean that they don't place value on family.
 

OrbitalDawn

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Why is it bigoted? Its pretty true actually for African Americans in general. They have by far the highest percentage of single parent families amongst ethnic groups. Its an issue that needs looking into if inequality is to be addressed.

Those are 2 separate issues, though. And there's a yawning gulf between saying they have higher rates of single parent families (which is a sociological fact) and saying that an entire race, *as a cultural value*, don't value family, which is absurd and bigoted. You can value family very highly despite not being married.

You can draw a straight line between slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, redlining, the war on drugs, mass incarceration, etc. and how it wreaked havoc on African American families.

This is a fascinating look at the issue and the evidence:

The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration
 

Emjay

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Those are 2 separate issues, though. And there's a yawning gulf between saying they have higher rates of single parent families (which is a sociological fact) and saying that an entire race, *as a cultural value*, don't value family, which is absurd and bigoted. You can value family very highly despite not being married.

You can draw a straight line between slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, redlining, the war on drugs, mass incarceration, etc. and how it wreaked havoc on African American families.

This is a fascinating look at the issue and the evidence:

The Black Family in the Age of Mass Incarceration

White single motherhood rates are also climbing. They don't value the nuclear family either. So is that bigoted too?
 
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