Donald J. Trump: President of the USA Part II Covfefe

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Nick333

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Oh my. Reading up on Redlining is proving to be a rabbit hole. Seems it was exacerbated by the National Housing Act, a New Deal initiative courtesy of the Dems. I sadly don't have time to follow it all the way down, but I'm guessing it goes something like: government makes it harder to forclose on non payers; banks reluctant to approve loans to individuals from communities who are historically bad payers.
 

Unhappy438

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Emjay

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Wow, ethnic traditions go way further back than just the last 50 years. Historically have Asians had an equal economic footing in the US?

And if you look at Asian income, they out earn whites by a pretty decent amount. This however will be classified as an outlier, as this fact alone imo breaks apart the claims of systemic wide racism. I wonder how intersectionalists explain this type of privilege? @greg0205, care to comment? Does the fact that Asians are minorities supersede the fact that they are higher income earners. Does that mean they get to move up the privilege scale, or down?

Slavery and Jim Crow laws did have an impact on the black communities as there has not been any generational wealth, but there is massive movement of people between the classes, and it can happen rapidly. But, we will perpetuate victim hood and bait race all the time. Nice way to tear down that multicultural dream.

Are external ovaries a thing I should know about? Also, are all incubators sentient or is it only in Utah?

https://rewire.news/legislative-tracker/law/utah-vital-statistics-act-amendment-hb-153/

What a faux pas. Wonder how that got passed the teams of legal people this probably went through.
 

Binary_Bark

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This guy is funny

ecfae4c7108652fc2a9370ff5e3cf81d.jpg
 

cerebus

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And if you look at Asian income, they out earn whites by a pretty decent amount. This however will be classified as an outlier, as this fact alone imo breaks apart the claims of systemic wide racism. I wonder how intersectionalists explain this type of privilege? @greg0205, care to comment? Does the fact that Asians are minorities supersede the fact that they are higher income earners. Does that mean they get to move up the privilege scale, or down?

You don't think there's a difference between Asians who immigrated with their culture intact, and blacks who were brought over as slaves then subjected to hundreds of years of systemic oppression that continues today in degrees?
 

Emjay

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You don't think there's a difference between Asians who immigrated with their culture intact, and blacks who were brought over as slaves then subjected to hundreds of years of systemic oppression that continues today in degrees?

So it is a cultural thing, and not systemic racism?

Please show me where there are actual ACTS of racism that keep black people poor, and we can go fight it together, ok?

I am also going to dig out a study later today. I have prep for a big meeting I need to get to. But, essentially, it has been shown that black women who grow up in middle income families are out earning white women.
 

Emjay

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Just a quick one. Happy Friyay, everyone! I'll have a drink to independent media later today.

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cerebus

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So it is a cultural thing, and not systemic racism?

A big part of the systemic racism towards US blacks is the divestment of culture. IOW it's more than a little hypocritical to complain that blacks don't value family structures when their family values were stripped away by you. Of course I mean 'you' in the general sense.

Please show me where there are actual ACTS of racism that keep black people poor, and we can go fight it together, ok?

I seem to remember starting a thread about a rise of right wing violence, much of which is race related. But the main issues today are structural rather than overt.

I am also going to dig out a study later today. I have prep for a big meeting I need to get to. But, essentially, it has been shown that black women who grow up in middle income families are out earning white women.

Sounds interesting
 

Gingerbeardman

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A big part of the systemic racism towards US blacks is the divestment of culture. IOW it's more than a little hypocritical to complain that blacks don't value family structures when their family values were stripped away by you. Of course I mean 'you' in the general sense.
So how is this cultural divestment supposed to work?
 

Unhappy438

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Majority of children living with single fathers are White.
That is not the same as "white single parent households [are] predominately male "

Not the same at all.

Yes you're right, i worded my original post incorrectly but it doesn't change the point of the post.
 

Emjay

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A big part of the systemic racism towards US blacks is the divestment of culture. IOW it's more than a little hypocritical to complain that blacks don't value family structures when their family values were stripped away by you. Of course I mean 'you' in the general sense.

We cannot fix problems of "cultural divestment". I didn't strip anyone's values away. Saying that is patently untrue. Throughout human history all people of all different races were oppressed and disposed. Oppressors and opressees come from all races and walks of life. This is why there will never be consensus on the way forward. Too much blame apportioning for things that happen in the past. You want to point to some systemic racist boogeyman. I want to point to underlying issues that we can tackle at ground level to raise people out of poverty.

OD keeps saying there is systemic racism, especially with incarcerations. Black communities are far more violent and commit more crime (due to poverty, gangsterisim (which is from the vacuum created by single mother households), etc) so they land up in prison at a higher rate. Take a look at the number of illegal immigrants in the system too. No one forced those people to come to the USA and make them commit a crime. Is it now "divestment culture" that put them there when they are feeling their homelands?

The USA's war on drugs has hit the African American community hard. The investigators, prosecutors, judges, juries, etc are not racist. They are following the law. However, we can probably put a direct link between the privatization of the jail system to longer incarceration times. Let's have a discussion about that. Instead, labels such as bigotry are thrown around which shut down the debate and close people off to one another. It's hilarious how people want to fix the problems, but they alienate everyone around them with concepts such as privilege and systemic racism. What can any one individual do about those issues? Talk some more?

What's odd is that Trump actually tried to make a step in the right direction with some of his prison reform legislation.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/11/19/tru...orm-bill-faces-uphill-battle-in-congress.html

The bill focuses on reducing mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenders, who make up nearly half the federal prison population, according to the Congressional Research Service.

That damn, racist Trump. How dare he?

Senators eager to pass the First Step Act during the current lame-duck session worry that delaying a vote until next year will kill its chances of success, as the House, which will be controlled by Democrats come January, could push for more comprehensive reforms.

So they would rather not take a quick win, and then lobby for additional reforms?
 
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C4Cat

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Yes you're right, i worded my original post incorrectly but it doesn't change the point of the post.
I'm not clear about the point of your post. You were putting forward questions that you think indicates there are factors beyond poverty for broken families, but doing you were doing so in order to generalize about race or ethnicity being a predominant factor?
 

OrbitalDawn

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Emjay said:
The USA's war on drugs has hit the African American community hard. The investigators, prosecutors, judges, juries, etc are not racist. They are following the law.

You are *so* painfully close to making the connection. That is what systemic racism is! It's built into the system, it's not personal malice by individuals. That exists, too, but that's not where most of the problems lie. Decades of horrible criminal justice policies perpetuate discriminatory practices and entrench the problems, leading to horrible outcomes for people.

Here's a good rundown of the various ways (with mounds of evidence) that systemic racism infects the criminal justice system. Note particularly how pervasive the problem is of black people (especially black men) being targeted for stops, arrests, general police harassment, despite having less drugs/weapons found on them. Or how they get sentenced for longer, for the same crime, compared to white men. Or how they get felony convictions for the exact same drugs that nets white men misdemeanor charges.

What I mean by horrible policies is things like incentivising police forces with arrest numbers, or ticketing numbers to get more equipment. So what do they do? They go to where it's easiest to harass people, arrest them, or ticket them without pushback - which are usually black neighbourhoods. This is bad all the way down - for the community because they get all the negative effects of unnecessary policing. Bad for the police, because it drives a wedge between them and the community, and forces them to hustle for equipment that they actually need, and bad for society at large, because people get pulled into the criminal justice system, which quite often has very negative outcomes. If they're poor and can't afford proper defence attorneys? Sorry, you get hammered. What happens to their families?

Emjay said:
However, we can probably put a direct link between the privatization of the jail system to longer incarceration times. Let's have a discussion about that.

Yes, we should! It's a big part of the problem. Obama tried to get rid of them. Jeff Sessions scrapped that and rewarded them big time. As did Trump.

Trump Administration Giving Boost to Private Prison Campaign Donors, Leaked Memo Shows

The Trump administration has ordered the transfer of more inmates from government-run facilities to private lockups, a leaked memo from the Bureau of Prisons has shown. The move marks the latest boost given to the private prison industry, which donated hundreds of thousands of dollars to the president's election campaign and his inauguration.

Emjay said:
but they alienate everyone around them with concepts such as privilege and systemic racism. What can any one individual do about those issues? Talk some more?

I honestly don't see how it alienates people. They're basic sociological facts about society and how we got to where we are, not personal judgements. Some people can be assholes about it, but that's true of everything. Acknowledging privilege and the existence of systemic racism doesn't require any guilt from you. We can simply acknowledge it and advocate for change to improve people's lives.
 
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