Donald J. Trump: President of the USA Part III Covfefe

Pitbull

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Sure.

Using these two links -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:School_shootings_committed_by_adults
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:School_shootings_committed_by_minors

And only accounting for schools in the USA I obtained the following -

Made slight calculation errors yesterday,a s I did it quick by hand, but still have very similar answers and it shows that your point was very poorly made. Adults will kill kids at school regardless of your belief they are too mature not to do so.

Please explain how I have shifted that goalpost of that comment.

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Going through your analyses I concede to having had the wrong idea with regards to the perpetrators and stand corrected. You are right, it does appear that most of these shootings on school grounds are committed by adults, and directed mainly at kids/students of that school. No clear distinction or reason as it seems to he random when it comes to motive.

Facts are though given your data. Shooters target students/kids at these colleges/schools and these shootings could and would be prevented or damage limited with an armed responsible person being there when it happens. I can agree that I was wrong about the age of the perpetrators, I however still stand by the fact that an armed teacher would have been able to save many if not most of those killed.
 

buka001

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Going through your analyses I concede to having had the wrong idea with regards to the perpetrators and stand corrected. You are right, it does appear that most of these shootings on school grounds are committed by adults, and directed mainly at kids/students of that school. No clear distinction or reason as it seems to he random when it comes to motive.

Facts are though given your data. Shooters target students/kids at these colleges/schools and these shootings could and would be prevented or damage limited with an armed responsible person being there when it happens. I can agree that I was wrong about the age of the perpetrators, I however still stand by the fact that an armed teacher would have been able to save many if not most of those killed.

Not disputing that. I hope if anything that arming teachers help, purely out of the idea that well nothing else has been done to help, so well maybe that is something that can help.

My only hope is that it doesn't make it worse.
 

Pitbull

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Not disputing that. I hope if anything that arming teachers help, purely out of the idea that well nothing else has been done to help, so well maybe that is something that can help.

My only hope is that it doesn't make it worse.
Looking at your breakdown, it does seem that the majority of these attacks on school is purely because they are easy targets and get the most publicity. Making them harder targets will hopefully drive these random attacks away from schools to somewhere else.
 

scudsucker

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Making them harder targets will hopefully drive these random attacks away from schools to somewhere else.
Your solution to school shootings is to move mass gun murders elsewhere? To where?

Hospitals? Are we going to arm nurses next?

Churches? Should the priest be packing?

Old Age Care homes? Do we arm the doddery Alzheimer's patients?




Or is it just your fervent wish that everyone should be carrying a gun, so your fetish becomes more mainstream?
 
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Pitbull

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Your solution to school shootings is to move mass gun murders elsewhere? To where?

Hospitals? Are we going to arm nurses next?

Churches? Should the priest be packing?

Old Age Care homes? Do we arm the doddery Alzheimer's patients?




Or is it just your fervent wish that everyone should be carrying a gun, so your fetish becomes more mainstream?
hospitals have security, only some school have armed officers, so yes elsewhere away from the KIDS!
 

scudsucker

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hospitals have security, only some school have armed officers, so yes elsewhere away from the KIDS!
Won't someone think of the KIDS?





Of course the solution to protecting kids from guns in schools would be more guns in schools. Stands to reason.

OTOH, Pitbull, you have not explained where you would prefer mass shootings to happen.
 
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Grant

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so now, has a comparative study been carried out giving the following info
trump vs obama

how many drone attacks carried out in foreign territories
how many bombings carried out in foreign territories
how many civillians killed in attacks carried out in foreign
territories
how many us troops killed in foreign territories
how many illegals deported from the usa
 

konfab

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Once notorious for her racist and bigoted tweets, Katie McHugh saw the dark insides of the white nationalist movement.

Excellently reported piece about the alt right and how often and totally coincidentally white nationalists end up working at conservative media publications.
The libertarian to facist pipeline isn't anything new.

No one can be totally alone. Even if you’re hated by the majority of people, if you have kindred spirits cheering you on in the minority, you can survive. McHugh might have gone on longer if she hadn’t become toxic not only to the wider world but also to her alt-right former friends. In The Origins of Totalitarianism, Hannah Arendt writes about the way the lonely deduce the worst, and the way that totalitarian government “bases itself on loneliness, on the experience of not belonging to the world at all, which is among the most radical and desperate experiences of man. … What makes loneliness so unbearable is the loss of one’s own self which can be realized in solitude, but confirmed in its identity only by the trusting and trustworthy company of my equals.” White nationalism thrives on the loneliness of the disaffected; McHugh’s own loneliness aided her escape — but with the help of the two friends.

McHugh recently discovered the English academic Roger Griffin’s theory of palingenetic ultranationalism — the idea that fascism hinges on the idea of rebirth, that the old order would be swept away and the new one heroically installed, promising a new beginning and a better life for the people. Now, she says, she sees how much of all this was a fantasy designed to comfort disaffected men who were isolated and insecure.
The same can be said for the ANC, EFF, BLF, ISIS, the radical left.

If you think about it carefully, the part that I highlighted is almost the exact opposite of political conservatism. That sentence would sit right at home in the playbook of AOC and the radical left. You tell any of these "progressives" how the old order should be swept away and replaced and there would be huge nods of agreement.

This is the underpinnings of horseshoe theory.
 

rietrot

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Won't someone think of the KIDS?





Of course the solution to protecting kids from guns in schools would be more guns in schools. Stands to reason.

OTOH, Pitbull, you have not explained where you would prefer mass shootings to happen.
You are not protecting them from guns. Guns are tools, useless on its own until a crazy person picks one up.
The real question is how do you protect kids from crazy people who would like to hurt them.
 

scudsucker

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Guns are tools, useless on its own until a crazy person picks one
OK, I'll rephrase.

"Of course the solution to protecting kids from tools - that are explicitly designed for killing - in schools would be more tools - that are explicitly designed to killing - in schools."

The more available tools that are explicitly designed to kill there are available, the more chance a crazy person is going to pick one up. Or an accidental discharge occurs. Or a suicidal kid gets hold of one of these tools.
 
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cerebus

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The libertarian to facist pipeline isn't anything new.


The same can be said for the ANC, EFF, BLF, ISIS, the radical left.

If you think about it carefully, the part that I highlighted is almost the exact opposite of political conservatism. That sentence would sit right at home in the playbook of AOC and the radical left. You tell any of these "progressives" how the old order should be swept away and replaced and there would be huge nods of agreement.

This is the underpinnings of horseshoe theory.
Quite a stretch Konfab. Libertarian to fascist is right-wing to extreme right-wing. But somehow you find one sentence that you can associate with the left and suddenly it's horseshoe theory? Palingenetic ultranationalism is NOT a left wing concept no matter how you try to frame it.
 

konfab

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Quite a stretch Konfab. Libertarian to fascist is right-wing to extreme right-wing
Oh right, I remember now, anyone to the right of Mao Tse Tung is "right wing".

But somehow you find one sentence that you can associate with the left and suddenly it's horseshoe theory? Palingenetic ultranationalism is NOT a left wing concept no matter how you try to frame it.
The politics of Julias Malema are basically just that. His "nation" is what he sees as the "oppressed" people of South Africa. Hence you can take whatever you want for your nation.

And you missed out the part where I said ISIS also falls under it. Which happens to be an extreme right wing organisation (but hey these are the good type of right wing extremists as they are the right skin colour and are not christians) . Hence why I said it falls part of horseshoe theory.

Even the Trumpenfuher used some of this language (to a lesser extent) when he said he was going to drain the swamp.
 

Emjay

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The libertarian to facist pipeline isn't anything new.



The same can be said for the ANC, EFF, BLF, ISIS, the radical left.

If you think about it carefully, the part that I highlighted is almost the exact opposite of political conservatism. That sentence would sit right at home in the playbook of AOC and the radical left. You tell any of these "progressives" how the old order should be swept away and replaced and there would be huge nods of agreement.

This is the underpinnings of horseshoe theory.
This is interesting when you put this opinion next to the recent assaults on average day to day citizens wearing MAGA hats.
 

cerebus

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Oh right, I remember now, anyone to the right of Mao Tse Tung is "right wing".
It's misspeaking to say that libertarianism is right-wing in itself, but it is the direction of the pipeline: right-wing libertarian to fascist.

The politics of Julias Malema are basically just that. His "nation" is what he sees as the "oppressed" people of South Africa. Hence you can take whatever you want for your nation.
That's a good point actually. It's not strictly palingenetic ultranationalism because you can't just take anything for your nation, but yes Malema is a nationalist who claims to be of the left.

And you missed out the part where I said ISIS also falls under it. Which happens to be an extreme right wing organisation (but hey these are the good type of right wing extremists as they are the right skin colour and are not christians) . Hence why I said it falls part of horseshoe theory.
ISIS? I don't understand what point you're trying to make. There's no horseshoe with ISIS. Nobody approves of them because of identity politics.

Even the Trumpenfuher used some of this language (to a lesser extent) when he said he was going to drain the swamp.
Still not seeing the horseshoe.
 

konfab

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It's misspeaking to say that libertarianism is right-wing in itself, but it is the direction of the pipeline: right-wing libertarian to fascist.
Right wing in terms of what? Conservatism? Religion? Freedom? Individualism?


That's a good point actually. It's not strictly palingenetic ultranationalism because you can't just take anything for your nation, but yes Malema is a nationalist who claims to be of the left.
So he is a national socialist then? The national socialist who behaves and advocates for policies that all leftwing people around the world advocate for.

ISIS? I don't understand what point you're trying to make. There's no horseshoe with ISIS. Nobody approves of them because of identity politics.
The point I was making is that anyone who espouses that story that society needs to be completely torn apart and remade in some perfect image is engaging in the politics of totalitarianism, be it left wing or right wing.
 
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