Donald J. Trump: President of the USA Part III Covfefe

[rietrot]

Terrorising and terrorism aren't two interchangeable terms.

I was being more than reasonable, seeing that the full list of 200 something always gets used to make a point about how bad mass shootings in the US is. It's dishonest to now go and want to change the criteria.

However if you can find a credible list, unlike the nonsense cerebus posted last night, that would be interesting to see who are the actual terrorist.

 

[rietrot]

Only justice is not supposed to be about revenge.

Says who?

 

[Zoomzoom]

Says who?

in theory, in practice it is not, otherwise we'd have a far better reform system in place, but that is the idea anyway.

 

[rietrot]

in theory, in practice it is not, otherwise we'd have a far better reform system in place, but that is the idea anyway.

Any punishment is revenge. Taking away someone's freedom because they committed a crime is revenge.

The idea the the justice system shouldn't be revenge is ridiculous. It should, criminals should work to pay back exactly the amount of damaged they caused plus cost of the system itself.

 

[C4Cat]

Any punishment is revenge. Taking away someone's freedom because they committed a crime is revenge.

The idea the the justice system shouldn't be revenge is ridiculous. It should, criminals should work to pay back exactly the amount of damaged they caused plus cost of the system itself.

Revenge is a personal retaliation, done because of perceived harm to oneself. In contrast, Justice is not personal, punishment is given by a judge or jury, people who were not personally involved in the crime. Big difference.

 

[rietrot]

Revenge is a personal retaliation, done because of perceived harm to oneself. In contrast, Justice is not personal, punishment is given by a judge or jury, people who were not personally involved in the crime. Big difference.

I see nothing in the definition that makes that distinction. It does not have to be immediate or personal.

People are just unnecessarily adding their own negative connotations to the word.

 

[rambo919]

Yeah I'm with the two radicals on this one, Justice has no room for Revenge.... it does occationally have impartial vengeance though.

 

[Gingerbeardman]

Yeah I'm with the two radicals on this one, Justice has no room for Revenge.... it does occationally have impartial vengeance though.

Justice is the mechanism we use to make revenge socially respectable so that it doesn't snowball into Hatfields and McCoys, little more.

 

[rambo919]

Honestly it simply sounds like certain people are currently attempting to make revenge respectable.

 

[konfab]

I see nothing in the definition that makes that distinction. It does not have to be immediate or personal.

The difference between justice and revenge is the defining reason why you need a state.

Revenge perpetuates the problem of dealing with crime into a never ending blood feud between parties as neither party can be impartial in how they must pay for the wrongs that they commit.
Justice allows the cessation of blood feuds by the use of a third party that is stronger than any other party, whilst (theoretically) being impartial to either party. Thus it deals with the wrongdoing without creating more wrongdoing.

 

[rietrot]

Honestly it simply sounds like certain people are currently attempting to make revenge respectable.

Not at all. If you mean mob justice, banana court stuff.

There is a good reason to have formal due process that is fair.

 

[konfab]

Honestly it simply sounds like certain people are currently attempting to make revenge respectable.

Well that is what social justice is all about.

Justice as a concept isn't good enough for the leftists as it mostly deals with individuals and their actions. Social justice implies that people can be guilty of a crime just by being a member of a social group, thus it is morally permissible to "correct" the wrongs by doing whatever you want to the guilty party. Even if they didn't do anything.

 

[C4Cat]

I see nothing in the definition that makes that distinction. It does not have to be immediate or personal.

People are just unnecessarily adding their own negative connotations to the word.

revenge
/rɪˈvɛn(d)ʒ/
Learn to pronounce
noun
1.
the action of hurting or harming someone in return for an injury or wrong suffered at their hands.
"other spurned wives have taken public revenge on their husbands"
synonyms:vengeance, retribution, retaliation, reprisal, requital, recrimination, an eye for an eye (and a tooth for a tooth), tit for tat, measure for measure, getting even, redress, satisfaction, repayment, payback; More
verbLITERARY
1.
inflict hurt or harm on someone for an injury or wrong done to oneself.
"I'll be revenged on the whole pack of you"
synonyms:take revenge on, exact/wreak revenge


revenge (usually uncountable, plural revenges)

Any form of personal retaliatory action against an individual, institution, or group for some alleged or perceived harm or injustice.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/revenge

 

[rambo919]

Not at all. If you mean mob justice, banana court stuff.

There is a good reason to have formal due process that is fair.

Nope, revenge is never a good idea. A legal leveling of accounts so to speak is preferred but never revenge because it ALWAYS makes things worse.

 

[jack_spratt]

Check out what @Google is up to for the 2020 election!

 

[rambo919]

Well that is what social justice is all about.

Justice as a concept isn't good enough for the leftists as it mostly deals with individuals and their actions. Social justice implies that people can be guilty of a crime just by being a member of a social group, thus it is morally permissible to "correct" the wrongs by doing whatever you want to the guilty party. Even if they didn't do anything.

The irony is it's essentially racism only using class as the identifier.

 

[Aquila ka Hecate]

Any punishment is revenge. Taking away someone's freedom because they committed a crime is revenge.

The idea the the justice system shouldn't be revenge is ridiculous. It should, criminals should work to pay back exactly the amount of damaged they caused plus cost of the system itself.

Well, I dunno.
I thought that the justice system was primarily motivated by removing the wrongdoer from society and thus limiting his future harms.
And also, there's an element of possible reform - there's the hope that the individual will learn from his removal from society.

 

[rietrot]

Nope, revenge is never a good idea. A legal leveling of accounts so to speak is preferred but never revenge because it ALWAYS makes things worse.

Semantics. A legal leveling of accounts is legal revenge.

I don't see the word revenge has to be linked to the negative connotations, sure it can be bad. Maybe I'm just useing it wrong. I think my meaning is clear enough by this point.

 

[konfab]

Any punishment is revenge. Taking away someone's freedom because they committed a crime is revenge.

The idea the the justice system shouldn't be revenge is ridiculous. It should, criminals should work to pay back exactly the amount of damaged they caused plus cost of the system itself.

Read this article:

Enslavement was long used as a punishment throughout the world, but it has fallen out of favor in most places, even where explicitly allowed by fundamental law, as in the United States. In addition to its close association with immoral chattel slavery, penal slavery is efficient only superficially, in that the enslaved earn at least a portion of their keep instead of burdening taxpayers with the cost of their punishment. Slaves, though, naturally tend toward recalcitrance, and to get much productivity out of them the state needs to provide access to expensive capital that they can break or turn into weapons. If penal slaves somehow manage to compete in the marketplace, they displace non-prison laborers, which does not go very far politically. If relegated to low-skill public work, like cleaning highway rights-of-way, they develop little of the human capital needed to remain free upon release.

https://www.aier.org/article/crime-punishment-and-state

 

[rambo919]

Semantics. A legal leveling of accounts is legal revenge.

I don't see the word revenge has to be linked to the negative connotations, sure it can be bad. Maybe I'm just useing it wrong. I think my meaning is clear enough by this point.

Nope, there is a strict difference in meaning. Revenge is subjective, justice is objective. That's why the personalization of justice is blind, it does not actually see what it does it just balances things out.