Duckworth Lewis calculation - Fair or not?

Duckworth Lewis calculation . . .

  • fair in it's current form

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • needs revising for the modern game

    Votes: 16 61.5%
  • get rid of it

    Votes: 4 15.4%

  • Total voters
    26

DJ...

Banned
Joined
Jan 24, 2007
Messages
70,287
Personally, I find the calculation to be pretty unfair. First of all, it doesn't take into account the strength of a batting line-up, and the relevant bowling line-up. The averages and strike rates of bowlers and batsmen should be incorporated into the calculation for it to be a fair reflection on the game. A static calculation should no longer be applicable in the modern form of the game. It also doesn't appear to take into account power-plays in the modern game, nor does it take into account that in the modern game, it is becoming a common trend to see 60 runs or more taken in the final 5 overs for example.

Another reason is that wickets hold more weight than runs for a team batting second, which works to their advantage if rain is imminent. One can score at a much lower run rate than required to protect wickets and in turn the Duckworth Lewis calculation will reward you for it.

I was going to highlight the more recent WC debacle but that was more of a misunderstanding than anything else. The one example that I will highlight though is the infamous SA vs England 1992 World Cup semi-final. Back then they used the "best scoring overs" method. This meant that when rain delayed the final few balls of the match, leaving SA with 22 runs to chase from 13 deliveries, we headed off into the dressing room with an anticipated nail-biting end. However this controversial method meant that SA walked back on to the pitch requiring 21 runs from just 1 ball - an impossible task.

Now, using the Duckworth Lewis method, SA would have required 5 runs to win from just 1 ball. That means it had to go for six. Well lets take that scenario and juxtapose it into the modern era of cricket - 22 runs from 13 balls is most certainly do-able, and doesn't require 6 from every delivery, however the D/L method indicates that that is in fact the position that we found ourselves in. That is completely unfair.

One cannot use a static calculation in a game where there are so many variables. However there is a clear need for it in the modern game where broadcasting, advertising and sponsorships are necessary. So in that case, the ICC should re-evaluate the calculation imo to fairly incorporate more of the variables, to ensure that delays do not result in unfair advantages.

Another quick example is that it only requires 20 of the 50 allotted overs for a result to be decided based on D/L. It stands to reason that the way a team bats in the first 20 overs is vastly different to the final 10 overs for instance. So a match stopped after a mere 20 overs will favour the team batting first. However you can manipulate this to your advantage as the team batting second as indicated above - by not losing wickets but then the run-rate becomes more of a moot point.

What do you think?
 
Last edited:

feo

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
13,561
How's about a link or quote that explains how/when exactly the DL method is used and maybe that'll kickstart a decent debate. :)
 

feo

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 22, 2006
Messages
13,561
OK, from the wiks:

The essence of the D/L method is 'resources'. Each team is taken to have two 'resources' to use to make as many runs as possible: the number of overs they have to receive; and the number of wickets they have in hand. At any point in any innings, a team's ability to score more runs depends on the combination of these two resources. Looking at historical scores, there is a very close correspondence between the availability of these resources and a team's final score, a correspondence which D/L exploits[3].

Using a published table which gives the percentage of these combined resources remaining for any number of overs (or, more accurately, balls) left and wickets lost, the target score can be adjusted up or down to reflect the loss of resources to one or both teams when a match is shortened one or more times. This percentage is then used to calculate a target (sometimes called a 'par score') that is usually a fractional number of runs. If the second team passes the target then the second team is taken to have won the match; if the match ends when the second team has exactly met (but not passed) the target (rounded down to the next integer) then the match is taken to be a tie.

DuckworthLewisEng.png
 
Last edited:

Smurfatefrog

Expert Member
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
2,750
The current system is definitely the best version they have had to date, after the 92 incident some really lop sided versions came out and then eventually this one which i dont think has been revised for a while. You do have some good points especially the power play rules now which should no doubt be incorporated into it, so my vote is for a revision.

Who voted to get rid of it, whats the next best thing, call the game off once an over is lost :confused:

and they should also make the tables easier to read for people like Pollock and Boje
 

stefan9

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 9, 2006
Messages
11,075
The current system is ok but once the calculations starts to favor one side over the other too much I would rather see a bowl out.
 

Devill

Damned
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
26,822
Problem is that you can not add weight to a wicket because of the batsmans avg. because than hussey who bats with the tail a lot and has a lot of N/o has a higher avrg than most while he is not that much better than most.

The D/L system isnt perfect by any stretch of the imagenation but its the best we have atm.

I am sure they revise it every year or so and make small adjustments.

Bottom line being people that are a lot smarter than me and you have devised the system and I am sure they strive to refine it as much as possible.
 

bekdik

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
12,860
An alternative?

Have a bowlout - something like each team gets 12 balls (or somesuch) and the team with highest runs and lowest wickets wins.

Alternatively flip a coin - best out of 3.
 

JK8

Banned
Joined
Jan 18, 2006
Messages
14,105
I think its fair, the teams and captains know how it works so they should know to work with it.
 

Devill

Damned
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
26,822
An alternative?

Have a bowlout - something like each team gets 12 balls (or somesuch) and the team with highest runs and lowest wickets wins.

Alternatively flip a coin - best out of 3.

ROFL :D
 

Pitbull

Verboten
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
64,307
With the stats these days it's rather easy to work out the scores based on the amount of overs the second team is/was facing.

If team A did 150 run in the first 20 overs as an exapmple then Team B should also get 150+1 for a win. What does the wickets and so forth got to do with it ?

Or work out a run rate average for allowed overs based on the score set by the first team batting equal to that amount of overs allocated.

Lets say they got 300 for 50 overs = 6.00 run rate.

Now team B only gets 35 overs so their target should be 35x6+1.
 

Devill

Damned
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
26,822
With the stats these days it's rather easy to work out the scores based on the amount of overs the second team is/was facing.

If team A did 150 run in the first 20 overs as an exapmple then Team B should also get 150+1 for a win. What does the wickets and so forth got to do with it ?

Or work out a run rate average for allowed overs based on the score set by the first team batting equal to that amount of overs allocated.

Lets say they got 300 for 50 overs = 6.00 run rate.

Now team B only gets 35 overs so their target should be 35x6+1.

See that reasoning is flawed seeing as 10 wickets to use in 35 overs is a lot better than over 50 overs. Also if you know you only have 30 overs you will start attacking earlier but if you have 50 overs the chances are you will be a bit more selective of the ball to have a swing at ;)
 

bekdik

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 5, 2004
Messages
12,860
The basic problem with the DWL system is that one team has more information available at the start of their innings than the other team has at their start.
 

Pitbull

Verboten
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Messages
64,307
See that reasoning is flawed seeing as 10 wickets to use in 35 overs is a lot better than over 50 overs. Also if you know you only have 30 overs you will start attacking earlier but if you have 50 overs the chances are you will be a bit more selective of the ball to have a swing at ;)

That just means the second team will play riskier cricket and will have a greater chance of being bowled/caught out.
 

Devill

Damned
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Messages
26,822
That just means the second team will play riskier cricket and will have a greater chance of being bowled/caught out.

No they wont have to because even though it looks fair it is not, they have 10 wickets to score 70% of the runs.

Also if lets say Gibbs scores a quick 50 of 20 balls when chasing 200 its a big deal.

But gibbs scoring 50 of 20 balls chasing 300 is not such a big deal.

Also they opposite of what you say is true. The second team will be able to pace their innings much better :)
 
Top