E-toll costs were known by the public - lawyer

Sinbad

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The story contradicts the heading of this thread.

If the tariffs were not released, the public DID NOT KNOW the costs.
 

The_Unbeliever

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I was under the impression the whole excercise was to get the roads up to standard for 2010? :confused:

I cannot remember if they made any mention of tolling before and during that period.
 

RoosTa

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Those who would be affected owned cars and therefore could afford to pay, he said.
And cars converts petrol into money ... Last time I checked, you NEED a car to get around!
 

Sinbad

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I was under the impression the whole excercise was to get the roads up to standard for 2010? :confused:

I cannot remember if they made any mention of tolling before and during that period.
I remember the same thing... Essential upgrades for the World Cup and if you oppose these upgrades you're an unpatriotic racist because you want SA to fail.
 

marine1

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David Unterhalter, you are a disgrace. :rolleyes:
Clearly some attorneys have no moral compass and are just in it for the money.
 

Sinbad

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#eTolls Unterhalter repeats: There is no going back on e-tolls as a funding mechanism. There is nothing to be done.
 

IzZzy

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David Unterhalter, you are a disgrace. :rolleyes:
Clearly some attorneys have no moral compass and are just in it for the money.
Again, we don't live in a banana republic where public opinion means a person is deprived of their right to legal counsel.
 

Sinbad

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Again, we don't live in a banana republic where public opinion means a person is deprived of their right to legal counsel.
Still doesn't give you a right to stand up and LIE in court.
 

marine1

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Again, we don't live in a banana republic where public opinion means a person is deprived of their right to legal counsel.
Sorry to burst your bubble this is indeed a banana republic and thats a bloody insult to bananas
 

HapticSimian

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Again, we don't live in a banana republic where public opinion means a person is deprived of their right to legal counsel.
IzZzy, I read your response in the other thread, and I know you're just defending your profession, but come on... This isn't mere public opinion. It is clear to even the most callous observer that we're dealing with a scheme hatched by a bunch of corrupt, self-enriching, amoral bastards; to defend that one has to oneself be, frankly, without any moral direction.

Unterhalter's bagging a big pay-cheque, sure, but he has sold out his countrymen in the process. He is a shining example of why I decided, 4 years in, that I just wouldn't function in the legal sphere. I actually have a sense of pride and integrity.
 

The_Unbeliever

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I remember the same thing... Essential upgrades for the World Cup and if you oppose these upgrades you're an unpatriotic racist because you want SA to fail.
I do remember one thing however. It was either for the gautrain or the highways - the contractor requested that they be paid extra to finish the project before the time....
 

DJ...

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They were, were they? Well here are the google news archives for the Gauteng Freeway Improvement Project between 2003 and 2008 - https://www.google.com/search?q=eto...6d654eac271384&bpcl=38897761&biw=1366&bih=687

I can find just a single Engineeringnews article relating to e-tolling from 2007. So where exactly is this plethora of information from these years?

More than just that, the public were kept in the dark about absolutely every aspect of the project, so how could a reasonable person object to something they had no information about? Even though the project had been on the cards for a decade, Sanral and government refused to divulge costings, pricings, tender information, true scope of work completed, and often linked the GFIP with the World Cup, up until the point that they realized that they wouldn't be ready for the launch. They also linked it to the traffic management system, which it isn't.

At every point along the way there was a deliberate attempt to obfuscate the matter and shroud it in secrecy. Once details emerged about the project, after it was too far along to halt, the public revolted. Don't try to deceive your way through this one and think you can continue to pull the wool over people's eyes...
 
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DJ...

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#eTolls Unterhalter repeats: There is no going back on e-tolls as a funding mechanism. There is nothing to be done.
There is plenty to be done from the public's perspective. You lot intentionally withheld information from the public in order to reach this point and the deal is as corrupt as the arms deal and Nkandla. The public will revolt against you thieving, conniving, palm-greasing liars...
 

Bundu

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Again, we don't live in a banana republic where public opinion means a person is deprived of their right to legal counsel.
and again, it would pizz me off if I had to pay for the legal council of a child pornographer...
 

PsyWulf

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I also did a bit of backdated searches trying to get any of this supposed known information

I find only this:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/03/03/ozabs-safrica-bonds-sanral-idAFJOE6220DL20100303
The South African National Roads Agency Limited (Sanral) tapped into its 2020 and 2034 bonds and issued a new 2023 inflation-linked bond, and overall bids received totalled 1.15 billion rand, RMB and Absa Capital said in a statement.

"837 million rand of bonds were allocated at market spreads of 0.55 percent over the RSA Government benchmarks -- tighter than the previous closing spreads for the nominal bonds and a spread of 37 basis points for the inflation-linked bond."

Sanral has now raised 15.9 billion rand for road upgrades, particularly for freeways around biggest city Johannesburg ahead of this year's soccer World Cup.
and this obscure doc from April 2010

Everytime I see a mention of possible price it gets put on hold after people complained and then followed by a "review"
 

dougatthewoods

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Unterhalter is the Alan Shore (Harvey Specter) of South African law. He is a master with words and is generally good at arguing and winning cases. He is just doing his job.

This case still has a while to go, but the e-tolls won't be cancelled. And prices won't be capped. And price increases will come like they have with Eskom (and will be disguised as 'saving SANRAL from financial ruin').

But that is a problem for future me. Current me has Christmas sales to waste money on.
 

Tick

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David Unterhalter, you are a disgrace. :rolleyes:
Clearly some attorneys have no moral compass and are just in it for the money.
Not all lawyers are bad - it's only the 99% of them that give the other 1% a bad name.

SANRAL and this lawyer are immoral sociopaths stealing money from the public.
 
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