E-toll prices hikes kick in in March

system32

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Yes I know, I pay my TV licence too. I'm a lost cause hey.

You're making these arguments as if it makes a difference. It doesn't. The laws are there, the toll-roads are up.

The only thing remaining to be seen is at which point the government will decide to enforce eTolling compliance, and with which penalties. I wonder if the judge will be interested in your defence above when it comes time for it? I suspect not.

The problem with e-tolls is that SANRAL is greedy and wanted to collect 34% of their total revenue from 186km (1%) of roads under management - 186km in Gauteng.

This is not a fair user-pays principle which is why we refuse to pay.

Watch this video as it will explain to you why we should not pay for theft.

 

grok

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You're not heroes. You're just common criminals, with common logic and common insults. I'll stick with my princely balance of R62 in the positive, thanks ;)
It's called disobedience, we decided not to listen to our corrupt ANC government that's stealing our taxes with schemes like these instead of doing the job we pay them to do.
We are actually the good guys here, you with your corruption-supporting R62 are not so STFU!

*grins* Isn't it funny how your civil disobedience exists only where there is a direct benefit to you ... in this instance, saving you money? Between you and me, I'm actually putting my money where my mouth is, in terms of supporting eTolling simply because it's the law and I don't get to decide which laws I want to support, anymore than you do. What civil disobedience are you taking part in that actually costs you money or time? That would mean something.
I can guarantee that if paying any other government tax was per demand letter, the same would happen, even to SARS. And Soweto also wouldn've paid, ever!

and if they just added 10c to the fuel levy back then instead of this circus, we would have already paid for this by now
Yeah but the cadres couldn't steal our taxes with a fuel levy.

If they made a law making it compulsory for you to walk over hot coals would you do it, because it's the law?
He simply would have to, just to prove that his civil disobedience doesn't just kick in when it benefits him.
 

Foxhound5366

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I have no vehicles left in my name
Oh no, what are the etolls people going to do??
Fortunately for them, vehicles without etags get billed to the registered vehicle owner based on the ID number associated to the car registration number. So although your cars are gone, your account is sitting safely for you, never fear.
 

Sinbad

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Fortunately for them, vehicles without etags get billed to the registered vehicle owner based on the ID number associated to the car registration number. So although your cars are gone, your account is sitting safely for you, never fear.
But they can't threaten to withhold my license disk
 

Foxhound5366

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It's called disobedience, we decided not to listen to our corrupt ANC government that's stealing our taxes with schemes like these instead of doing the job we pay them to do.
We are actually the good guys here, you with your corruption-supporting R62 are not so STFU!


I can guarantee that if paying any other government tax was per demand letter, the same would happen, even to SARS. And Soweto also wouldn've paid, ever!


Yeah but the cadres couldn't steal our taxes with a fuel levy.


He simply would have to, just to prove that his civil disobedience doesn't just kick in when it benefits him.
Personal attacks aside, I'm not sure you're making the strong point you think you're making. You're basically conceding that any tax which is not forcefully deducted will be disputed. And you see that as a basis for a functioning society, maybe? There's a line between civil disobedience and civil selfishness ... that was crossed a long time ago by a lot of e-Toll's fiercest critics.
 

Sarg3_ZN

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Yeah but the cadres couldn't steal our taxes with a fuel levy.

That should be the number one priority to fix, then we can actually start to grow this country, for as logn as that doesn't happen we will continue to regress until we are Zim 2.0
 

Swa

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Dude, we live in a welfare state. Did you miss the part where people were desperate for their R350/month grants for COVID-19? Are you a qualified accountant that you get to look at all the levies on the fuel bill, and where each is spent, and you have determined to what extent each is "wasted" or spent as required? I think the basic principle is that the highways were always going to be paid for by a tax, and the government decided that only people who used the highways should pay for it (with an elaborate tolling system) rather than tacking on a new national fuel levy to cover it (or even just diverting funds from the existing levies). I've said this before: the one time the government tries to actually put taxation into our hands like adults, we throw all our toys. This is exactly why SARS doesn't leave PAYE tax to voluntary payments from employees, but takes it directly from employers. If South Africans get a whiff of a chance to absolve themselves of a responsibility, they'll grab it.
Red herring. The basic principle here is that users aren't the ones paying so the whole reason for tolling it is a farce. And dude, yes you are correct the government decided. The ANC just decided there should be tolling and did it in the most inefficient manner possible. The last I heard I was told we lived in a democracy. Democracy means having a say in everything. But we know that's just lip service in the hands of the ANC just like the constitution after Ace said we shouldn't take it too seriously. :mad:
 

Swa

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Personal attacks aside, I'm not sure you're making the strong point you think you're making. You're basically conceding that any tax which is not forcefully deducted will be disputed. And you see that as a basis for a functioning society, maybe? There's a line between civil disobedience and civil selfishness ... that was crossed a long time ago by a lot of e-Toll's fiercest critics.
Let me enlighten you. Government is (or is supposed to be) there to serve society. Society is there to serve the individual. There is no such thing as individuals serving society. So by definition there can't be something like civil selfishness because individuals should inherently be afforded the benefit that society brings. By your (il)logic you'd be selfish and self-serving if you strike because you aren't paid what is due to you by your employer.
 

Foxhound5366

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Red herring. The basic principle here is that users aren't the ones paying so the whole reason for tolling it is a farce. And dude, yes you are correct the government decided. The ANC just decided there should be tolling and did it in the most inefficient manner possible. The last I heard I was told we lived in a democracy. Democracy means having a say in everything. But we know that's just lip service in the hands of the ANC just like the constitution after Ace said we shouldn't take it too seriously. :mad:
Yeah you can have a say in things, but it is your elected representatives who make the call on your behalf. How would democracy work if a vote had to happen on every tiny decision of State? So decide if you support democracy or not ... because democracy played out, and brought you e-Tolls. So which is it? Do you support that now?
 

Foxhound5366

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Let me enlighten you. Government is (or is supposed to be) there to serve society. Society is there to serve the individual. There is no such thing as individuals serving society. So by definition there can't be something like civil selfishness because individuals should inherently be afforded the benefit that society brings. By your (il)logic you'd be selfish and self-serving if you strike because you aren't paid what is due to you by your employer.
No, by my logic you'd be selfish if you refused to pay some taxes while paying others that you couldn't avoid, while benefiting from the taxed services. So yes ... I think that stands. Being selfish means wanting to get more than you give, which sounds about right for people who drive on a highway while refusing to pay its legally-mandated toll-fees. But who am I debating with? The selfish people? So yeah, never gonna get far with them ;P Luckily I don't need to.
 

Thugscub

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House still around?
We all got told we are going to jail if we didn't pay out tolls.
This was maybe 6 years ago.
Still won't pay the stealing twats a penny.
 
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Swa

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Yeah you can have a say in things, but it is your elected representatives who make the call on your behalf. How would democracy work if a vote had to happen on every tiny decision of State? So decide if you support democracy or not ... because democracy played out, and brought you e-Tolls. So which is it? Do you support that now?
Democracy did not play out. Nobody had an opportunity to have a say. The process was not transparent as it should be. There's also a lot more to big decisions like etoll than simply having your say and politicians making the decisions. So do you still support it knowing it was done illegally and unconstitutionally?

No, by my logic you'd be selfish if you refused to pay some taxes while paying others that you couldn't avoid, while benefiting from the taxed services. So yes ... I think that stands. Being selfish means wanting to get more than you give, which sounds about right for people who drive on a highway while refusing to pay its legally-mandated toll-fees. But who am I debating with? The selfish people? So yeah, never gonna get far with them ;P Luckily I don't need to.
You pay regardless, unless you don't pay tax. But that's how society works. The issue here is the process and how it was done.
 

Foxhound5366

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Democracy did not play out. Nobody had an opportunity to have a say. The process was not transparent as it should be. There's also a lot more to big decisions like etoll than simply having your say and politicians making the decisions. So do you still support it knowing it was done illegally and unconstitutionally?


You pay regardless, unless you don't pay tax. But that's how society works. The issue here is the process and how it was done.
Swa, there was actually a public participation process. Sadly it didn't go your way, and maybe it wasn't to your satisfaction, but regardless here we are, and the democratically-elected government supports it (although they themselves would love some political point-scoring by cancelling the whole thing), and all of this is a moot discussion. Now let's you and I stop wasting our lives and carry on as we were.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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Democracy did not play out. Nobody had an opportunity to have a say. The process was not transparent as it should be. There's also a lot more to big decisions like etoll than simply having your say and politicians making the decisions. So do you still support it knowing it was done illegally and unconstitutionally?


You pay regardless, unless you don't pay tax. But that's how society works. The issue here is the process and how it was done.
Wrong. The issue is that people are completely over-taxed.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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Personal attacks aside, I'm not sure you're making the strong point you think you're making. You're basically conceding that any tax which is not forcefully deducted will be disputed. And you see that as a basis for a functioning society, maybe? There's a line between civil disobedience and civil selfishness ... that was crossed a long time ago by a lot of e-Toll's fiercest critics.
You have crossed the line between reason and madness.
 
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