E-toll prices: what you could be paying

supersunbird

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Oct 1, 2005
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These threshold values (and other E-toll prices) will be adjusted annually so as not to exceed the consumer price index for the previous 12 months, Sanral said.
I wonder if this will force gov via StatsSA to correct/improve the way CPI inflation in calculated.

I need a e-toll gantry map so I can work out best avoidence routes.
 

genetic

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Apr 26, 2008
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They can make the tariff R1mil... I'm still not paying. They will have an administrative nightmare.
 

nerf

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Jul 5, 2011
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They can make the tariff R1mil... I'm still not paying. They will have an administrative nightmare.
+ 1000000 , not to mention the legal fees it will cost them to collect debt

SANRAL you suck !!
 

])ragon_\/oid

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I already want to start crying, and it haven't even been implemented yet. Taxi's don't pay. Why should I pay if they don't pay?
 

Iroiro

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They are effectively charging an extra 200% in interest on tolls after 7 days WTF
 

Cool E

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])ragon_\/oid;11315957 said:
I already want to start crying, and it haven't even been implemented yet. Taxi's don't pay. Why should I pay if they don't pay?
Not all taxis. Some will pay.
 

CeeBee

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Jul 27, 2006
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that very nice and all... if they cannot ensure the system will be fair, and paid by all, then its not acceptable.
i dont want to pay even 10c fee, if everyone else using the same road, same vehicle level, won't be paying too.
they keep failing to see that its not just about the tollfee amount.

and, if the cameras on the gantry is so good, to pickup your car's reg no, why then do we need the tag? from the reg no they still manage to track you down for camera speed traps.

so, if etolling goes live, are they gonna take away existing (physical) tolgates, like Zambesi and others? not holding breath on that one
 
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MKFrost

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I do not understand this:

Alternate user: everyone else, including users whose accounts are not up-to-date (tolls must be paid within 7 days).
7 Days from when? From passing the gantry(ies) or from receiving their notice to pay?

If its 7 days from passing the gantry then they must be joking. I'm from Cape Town. Let's say I go to Jhb for business and while there pass a couple of gantries in my vehicle. I will have little recollection of how many gantries I passed and what each cost by the time I get back home in CT. That is unless I stop at each one and make a note of the pricing from the signs I guess will be up at each. But even then, how do I know whether I did my calculations right or not, surely they must provide some form of invoice for my cost.

So I guess it has to mean within 7 days from receipt of their invoice, which I will most probably get a month later. What if I decide to pay with a cheque or postal order or something similar which is legal tender? This will have to be mailed to them which, at the rate the SAPOS is going, might take another month if it ever gets there.

Also, what if it arrives here on say the 10th of the month. Where does a normal salary earner get money before payday to pay it? Yeah you should budget etc.. but I'm thinking of most middle class people who live from hand to mouth each month and have little or nothing until the next payday.

As said, maybe I missed something but sounds like a load of BS....
 

Cool E

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that very nice and all... if they cannot ensure the system will be fair, and paid by all, then its not acceptable.
i dont want to pay even 10c fee, if everyone else using the same road, same vehicle level, won't be paying too.
they keep failing to see that its not just about the tollfee amount.

and, if the cameras on the gantry is so good, to pickup your car's reg no, why then do we need the tag? from the reg no they still manage to track you down for camera speed traps.
its simply , use alternative road. From PTA - Use Old Pretoria/Johanessburg road.
 

Wyzak

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I do not understand this:
7 Days from when? From passing the gantry(ies) or from receiving their notice to pay?
It is 7 days from passing the garty(ies).

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

tariff@dot.gov.za
SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<tariff@dot.gov.za>:
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The email address does not exist, how nice. - So this is why they didn't receive any correspondence from the public.

Dear Mr T.H.M Mphahlele,

Please find attached my public participation with regards to the
e-tolling system.

The 7 day payment period is ridiculous, all other payments work on a
30, 60 or 90 day basis.

All of the possible prices should be displayed next to each gantry. It
is criminal to only display the cheapest price when the majority of
the users will pay a price that can be as much as 500% higher.

There should be no price difference between the standard user and
e-tag user. Users who exercise their democratic right not to buy an
e-tag should not be penalized. It is also discrimination against users
from other provinces or countries who might use our roads and won't
have e-tags.

I support a ring fenced fuel-levy system. It has no operating costs,
and cannot be avoided. 44 billion rand is collected on the fuel levy
annually but only a fraction of that is spent on the roads. That is
completely unacceptable.

Gauteng contributes 40% to the national fiscus and is only asking
0.02% in return to fund the upgrade of the roads which will boost the
economy.

The e-toll will drive up price inflation and cause businesses to go
under. It will negatively affect the economy and cause stagflation in
Gauteng.

Taxis and buses are the only road users who get paid for using the
roads, they should not be exempt. If anybody should be exempt it's
those people who already pay twice for the roads, once through the
taxes on their salaries and secondly through the fuel levy and vehicle
license taxes.

I will not get tagged while R700 million flows overseas every year and
while billions are wasted on e-toll buildings, e-toll staff members,
e-toll vehicles and e-toll administration costs. I will not get tagged
while documents remain obfuscated. I will not get tagged when it is
clear that massive amounts of corruption has taken place in the
awarding of this contract. No sane person would ever have chosen this
system over the fuel levy system and it is crystal clear that the only
reason that decision was taken is so that somebody can pocket the
money.

I will vote against e-tolls in 2014.
This is my correspondence letter that I will be sending to them.
 
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Budza

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**** Gauteng then.

Too expensive to visit (as alternate user).
 

DJ...

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Jan 24, 2007
Messages
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Irrespective of what they claim it is going to cost us, the real numbers do not add up at all. Given those thresholds and prices, government will still need to subsidise the project further. Here's why:

So I've crunched the numbers even further with a very quick and dirty calculation that proves that they are lying.

Check this out:

Using Sanral's numbers, it would be impossible for them to repay their debt.
Their bonds are ten year issuances. They mature in 2020 (which is when final payment including all interest must be paid)
As you can see, using their numbers, they would have an annual shortfall of R9bn in this respect. They would default in their first 3 months of operation.
In fact using their numbers, it would take about 37 years for them to repay their bond investors. But they issued ten year bonds - they cannot extend this term whatsoever.
Ignore the theoretical margin in this one. We'll get to it next.
All of this assumes a 30% EBITDA margin, which is fair for any company. The likelihood of them operating at a higher margin than that is very slim.
Bottom line: Sanral are lying through their teeth.



Next lady for a shave:

Let's see what kind of margins and income they would actually have to generate in order to repay their debt (remember that this involves them repaying their entire margin towards their debt - no reinvestment in their roads, no maintenance of the roads, no profits effectively, and this is all before interest, tax, depreciation and amortisation which will erode a massive chunk of that margin as well).

So, using their figures, they would need to operating under the following conditions:

No costs whatsoever to their business. Nothing.
Even with no costs whatsoever, they're still short 10% income to repay their loan.
They'd need to operate on a 100% margin. So every cent they spend, they make double, effectively. In other words, they simply receive money and never spend it. Ever. And, they're still short 10% here.

So even in a world where they have no costs at all, do not pay tax, do not depreciate their assets, do not amortise anything at all - they still cannot repay their debt based on the numbers they submitted. Can you believe it? Not even in a world where every single road user goes and pays Sanral's creditors on Sanral's behalf to eliminate the cost element, do so on time, Sanral have no costs, nor maintenance at all. They still cannot repay their debt.

So let's see how much they would need to charge the average road user in order to repay their debt on time, working on a 30% margin which is reasonable, if not high for them:



So... every single Gauteng road user would have to pay R598 per month just for Sanral to repay their debt. And on time as well. That's an impossible 100% 30 day debtors book. And that doesn't take into account other elements like tax, depreciation, other interest, amortisation etc, and also means no road maintenance whastoever. This is a perfect world scenario.

So what can we conclude?

Sanral are a lying bunch of thieving bastards.

But wait, there's more. Let's actually factor in the other costs. Let's let Sanral work on a 10% net profit margin after absolutely everything:



Every single Gauteng road user realistically needs to pay about R1794 per month in order for Sanral to operate as a somewhat liquid business. Otherwise they will require cash injections in a massive way in order to stay afloat. So basically, e-tolls should be scrapped now. Nobody is going to pay R1794 per month just to drive on our own roads. This is simply not possible. It's absurd. It's ridiculous. It is quite clear that Sanral are stuffed as an organisation. If only half of road users pay their e-tolls, they'd have to be paying R3600 per month in order for Sanral to break even as a business.

So they're either going to cross-subsidise e-tolling with other projects (which I don't think is entirely legal or ethical) or paying e-tolls means paying money into a dead duck. You might as well burn your money in a big fire.

Spread this around to your friends and family. I'm tired of seeing them bandy about numbers as blatant lies. These numbers work back with what we actually know.

And what we know now, is that paying e-tolls is the WRONG thing to do, not only on moral grounds, but on financial grounds as well. Paying e-tolls will not cover their debt. It's time the government cut its losses and found other ways to monetise the gantries. Like average speed traps, perhaps? Or melting them down and using it for cabling infrastructure to connect SA properly?
 

DJ...

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Jan 24, 2007
Messages
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The email address does not exist, how nice. - So this is why they didn't receive any correspondence from the public.
Yup, the email address does not exist:

This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.

A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed:

tariff@dot.gov.za
SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<tariff@dot.gov.za>:
host 10.123.21.27 [10.123.21.27]: 554 5.7.1 <tariff@dot.gov.za>:
Recipient address rejected: Access denied



Bunch of thieving scumlickers...
 

moosag

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Sep 3, 2004
Messages
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I just really hope for once that the majority of South Africans we stand together and do not register for the E-Tag and when the bills come don't pay. Force them into an administrative nightmare!

By majority I am talking like 80%+ of people...

Going to be an interesting first 6 months when this thing goes live!
 

nerf

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Joined
Jul 5, 2011
Messages
420
Thanks, I've forwarded my email to that address. Will let you know if it's not working either.

Does the presidential support line have an email address?
My Mail hasn't returned yet after 5 minutes , maby it worked
 

Budza

Executive Member
Joined
Oct 14, 2008
Messages
7,803
Awesome DJ...

Have you submitted any of this to local newspapers etc for wider publication?
 
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