Earth Hour 20h30-21h30 25/03/2017

[Dave]

Environmental terrorism LOL if you want to troll me you might want to be a bit less obvious!

I don't need to clear my conscience I do everything I can to minimise my impact and yes I live in the civilised world and it's not perfect but if everyone's behaviour was the same as mine we would not have such a big problem.

not trolling, your actions match the definition..

Environmental terrorism consists of one or more unlawful actions that harm or destroy environmental resources or deprive others of their use.[1] More colloquially, the phrase is also used to label actions seen as the unnecessary or unjustified destruction of the environment for personal or corporate gain.

You're advocating the mass use of additional fossil fuels, not just in the burning of the candles, but in the sourcing, transport and production of those millions or billions of extra candles you want to see used.

You're adding to the environmental damage by advocating and propagandising these futile acts of folly.

 

[cupcake]

not trolling, your actions match the definition..



You're advocating the mass use of additional fossil fuels, not just in the burning of the candles, but in the sourcing, transport and production of those millions or billions of extra candles you want to see used.

You're adding to the environmental damage by advocating and propagandising these futile acts of folly.

https://enochthered.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/earth-hour-candles-and-carbon/amp/


The definition includes for personal or corporate gain so no it does not fit the definition.

Burning a candle might not be the best way to spend the hour I will change that next year when I power down and I will plant another tree in the interim.

Earth Hour is intended to create dialogue and educate so there we go it's all positive.

 

[MrGray]

So this is some kind of collective group virtue signaling exercise, right?

Couldn't care less personally. House is off grid for reasons of economic practicality and not wanting to rely on Eskom anyway so it's all just sunshine anyway.

 

[Dave]

So this is some kind of collective group virtue signaling exercise, right?

Unfortunately yes, it is an effort to look good and salve the consciences of some people but ultimately causes more environmental damage as all the additional carbon from their alternative light and heat sources is just added to the carbon emissions from the base load generation already being generated by power stations that can't just switch off for an hour.

 

[Dave]

https://enochthered.wordpress.com/2008/03/31/earth-hour-candles-and-carbon/amp/


The definition includes for personal or corporate gain so no it does not fit the definition.

There is a personal gain to you emotionally.

Burning a candle might not be the best way to spend the hour I will change that next year when I power down and I will plant another tree in the interim.

Earth Hour is intended to create dialogue and educate so there we go it's all positive.

Why don't you just plant extra trees more often and reduce average use of energy over the whole year and not bother with the idiocy that is this earth hour phenomenon?

If the base load required dropped over the whole year then less power generation would be required and power stations could regulate their generation down over time, rather than this one hour nonsense that achieves nothing.

 

[cupcake]

So this is some kind of collective group virtue signaling exercise, right?

Couldn't care less personally. House is off grid for reasons of economic practicality and not wanting to rely on Eskom anyway so it's all just sunshine anyway.

It goes beyond power usage as explained in this Wikipedia quote :
"Of most concern in these anthropogenic factors is the increase in CO2 levels due to emissions from fossil fuel combustion, followed by aerosols (particulate matter in the atmosphere) and the CO2 released by cement manufacture. Other factors, including land use, ozone depletion, animal agriculture[68] and deforestation, are also of concern in the roles they play – both separately and in conjunction with other factors – in affecting climate, microclimate, and measures of climate variables.[69]"

 

[cupcake]

There is a personal gain to you emotionally.




Why don't you just plant extra trees more often and reduce average use of energy over the whole year and not bother with the idiocy that is this earth hour phenomenon?

If the base load required dropped over the whole year then less power generation would be required and power stations could regulate their generation down over time, rather than this one hour nonsense that achieves nothing.

I agree planting more trees and reducing consumption is important and I do that. I started to consider these things because of friends participation in Earth Hour many years ago and I have increased my own efforts and have been trying to raise awareness where possible.

For me it's about showing solidarity which in turn raises awareness and prompts change which is the ultimate goal.

 

[Dave]

It goes beyond power usage as explained in this Wikipedia quote :
"Of most concern in these anthropogenic factors is the increase in CO2 levels due to emissions from fossil fuel combustion, followed by aerosols (particulate matter in the atmosphere) and the CO2 released by cement manufacture. Other factors, including land use, ozone depletion, animal agriculture[68] and deforestation, are also of concern in the roles they play – both separately and in conjunction with other factors – in affecting climate, microclimate, and measures of climate variables.[69]"

And yet most of those who follow this stupid idea will light at least one candle to mark the hour

 

[cupcake]

And yet most of those who follow this stupid idea will light at least one candle to mark the hour

It's a good point that you make and I think it is definitely worth putting it out there but I don't think it nullifies the other permanent changes that are made as a result of the efforts made because of this movement.

 

[Dave]

It's a good point that you make and I think it is definitely worth putting it out there but I don't think it nullifies the other permanent changes that are made as a result of the efforts made because of this movement.

The time and effort should be put into looking at permanent reductions to fossil fuels, perhaps the militant jobless vegans should be volunteering to plant trees rather than thinking turning off the lights for an hour is somehow a productive use of the time.

As I said, this is a simple salve to the consciences of those who want to pretend they're doing something.

 

[cupcake]

The time and effort should be put into looking at permanent reductions to fossil fuels, perhaps the militant jobless vegans should be volunteering to plant trees rather than thinking turning off the lights for an hour is somehow a productive use of the time.

As I said, this is a simple salve to the consciences of those who want to pretend they're doing something.

Earth Hour SA is trying to achieve more than that and I am 100% on board with the goals.
http://earthhour.org.za/why-were-asking-eskom-to-lift-the-brakes-on-renewables/

"As part of this year’s Earth Hour campaign, WWF South Africa is calling on you to hold Eskom to account by demanding a renewable energy future and meeting our CoP21 commitments."

 

[Dave]

Earth Hour SA is trying to achieve more than that and I am 100% on board with the goals.
http://earthhour.org.za/why-were-asking-eskom-to-lift-the-brakes-on-renewables/

"As part of this year’s Earth Hour campaign, WWF South Africa is calling on you to hold Eskom to account by demanding a renewable energy future and meeting our CoP21 commitments."

So why can't they do that without the nonsensical lights out for an hour stunt?

 

[biometrics]

@purpleheart did you switch everything off? Fridge, alarm system, electric fence, switched your TV off at the wall (it uses electricity in standby mode) etc? The alarm and electric fence you would have needed to open to disconnect the battery.

 

[cupcake]

So why can't they do that without the nonsensical lights out for an hour stunt?

Yes it is a stunt and a show but that is what grabs people's attention and gets the conversation started just like any other demonstration used to change people's behaviour. If enough people do it those who are unaware will be asking "why has everyone got their power off?" With that question the opportunity to educate is presented.

 

[cupcake]

@purpleheart did you switch everything off? Fridge, alarm system, electric fence, switched your TV off at the wall (it uses electricity in standby mode) etc? The alarm and electric fence you would have needed to open to disconnect the battery.

I switched off at the mains for ease of use. The freezer easily stays at temperature if left closed however the alarm and gate have batteries that remained intact.

Keep in mind that the goal of the demonstration is not to save power and is to show solidarity for the cause.

 

[Dave]

Yes it is a stunt and a show but that is what grabs people's attention and gets the conversation started just like any other demonstration used to change people's behaviour. If enough people do it those who are unaware will be asking "why has everyone got their power off?" With that question the opportunity to educate is presented.

So you don't think there's any education or publicising of deforestation? Renewable energy? Nuclear energy?

Why waste your valuable time when you could be advocating and demonstrating for real change?

How many earth hour fruitloop evangelists will be out protesting when a new nuclear plant (external issues aside in an SA context) is announced in a country using coal derived power?

 

[Arthur]

To tell the truth, I'm in favour of some global warming.

It's a very positive thing for human flourishing, judging by last warmings - we've only recently emerged from the Medieval Maunder where low temps put a damper on things - and getting temps back to normal will be a nett positive, especially in the Northern Hemisphere where most people live.

My domestic power is from solar PV, which in the eyes of ignorati gives me Green creds.

This presents me with a small dilemma: Greenies think I'm one of them because I have solar power.

On the other hand, I don't think we humans and our CO2 output has anything whatsoever to do with climate change. (Yes, yes, I understand the greenhouse effect, etc, etc, and all the arguments of the Warmists. I just don't buy them. For much the same sort of reason that I didn't buy all the 'scientific' and 'medical' consensus in the 60s-90s that butter and eggs were evil foods, for example. They're not.)

Thankfully, I know that the manufacturing, storage, transportation, installation and maintenance of my PV panels and related goodies (inverter, MPPTs, etc) produces more than enough CO2 to offset any losses in CO2 production my panels might otherwise cause in the medium term.

 

[cupcake]

So you don't think there's any education or publicising of deforestation? Renewable energy? Nuclear energy?

Why waste your valuable time when you could be advocating and demonstrating for real change?

How many earth hour fruitloop evangelists will be out protesting when a new nuclear plant (external issues aside in an SA context) is announced in a country using coal derived power?

Small individual changes by a large collective is real change.

I would not label the largest world wide movement against the causes of climate change a bunch of fruitloops. It is supported by many remarkable people and huge corporation's like Google for example not a bunch of dim-witted hippies.

The organisers are the WWF!

 

[Dave]

Small individual changes by a large collective is real change.

I would not label the largest world wide movement against the causes of climate change a bunch of fruitloops. It is supported by many remarkable people and huge corporation's like Google for example not a bunch of dim-witted hippies.

The dim witted hippies (who are a large enough section of the "movement") should be volunteering their labour to offset the carbon issue, not sitting around smoking illicit substances with the lights off for an hour and then pretending they're doing great things for the environment.

 

[cupcake]

To tell the truth, I'm in favour of some global warming.

It's a very positive thing for human flourishing, judging by last warmings - we've only recently emerged from the Medieval Maunder where low temps put a damper on things - and getting temps back to normal will be a nett positive, especially in the Northern Hemisphere where most people live.

My domestic power is from solar PV, which in the eyes of ignorati gives me Green creds.

This presents me with a small dilemma: Greenies think I'm one of them because I have solar power.

On the other hand, I don't think we humans and our CO2 output has anything whatsoever to do with climate change. (Yes, yes, I understand the greenhouse effect, etc, etc, and all the arguments of the Warmists. I just don't buy them. For much the same sort of reason that I didn't buy all the 'scientific' and 'medical' consensus in the 60s-90s that butter and eggs were evil foods, for example. They're not.)

Thankfully, I know that the manufacturing, storage, transportation, installation and maintenance of my PV panels and related goodies (inverter, MPPTs, etc) produces more than enough CO2 to offset any losses in CO2 production my panels might otherwise cause in the medium term.

What about air pollution, landfills and habitat destruction are you in favour of that aswell?