East London man who killed friend and held his children hostage shot dead on farm

[Matt91]

He "the farmer" looks like he was a bit unhinged even in a sober state, can only guess that substances were consumed and/or smoked during this ceremony and that's when he flipped his nut and lost touch with reality - got that real crazy look in his eyes in the video I saw.

 

[Mar Vin]

RIP to the victim but Im glad the criminal was killed.

Also, thank you for letting us know it was a white farmer, as if that would have made a difference.

An important fact.

Imagine this...A black man killing a white man and of all places on a farm......

So yeah...important.

 

[Mar Vin]

Lets not get carried away by the ceremony claim. then to add to that suggest some drug was in whatever was used. It all seems like an excuse for what the farmer did....

be more subtle at least lol sheeesh

 

[TheChamp]

i just read this happened after a sangoma cleansing ceremony.

are they also given drugs like some other traditional healers in these cleansing ceremonies?(supposedly cleans the spirit and mind etc..)

What kind of drugs were you told about?

 

[The_Mowgs]

An important fact.

Imagine this...A black man killing a white man and of all places on a farm......

So yeah...important.

Does the media always say a white farmer was killed by a black man?

 

[ForceFate]

i just read this happened after a sangoma cleansing ceremony.

are they also given drugs like some other traditional healers in these cleansing ceremonies?(supposedly cleans the spirit and mind etc..)

Afaik, there's a lot of drumming and slaughtering of a goat. Maybe they take concoctions of herbs as well. I don't. But from what's publicly available, it sounds like Fritz was a nutcase.

 

[access]

What kind of drugs were you told about?

told about? you have never seen traditional healers using psycoactive drugs, not even american indians or natives in the amazon for example?
but for your sake, lets simplify it and keep it closer to home.

Psychoactive ubulawu spiritual medicines and healing dynamics in the initiation process of Southern Bantu diviners - PubMed

The use of psychoactive plants by traditional healers in southern Africa appears to be a neglected area of ethnobotanical research. This article explores the healing dynamics involved in the use of popular psychoactive plant preparations known as ubulawu in the initiation rituals of Southern...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The use of psychoactive plants by traditional healers in southern Africa appears to be a neglected area of ethnobotanical research. This article explores the healing dynamics involved in the use of popular psychoactive plant preparations known as ubulawu in the initiation rituals of Southern Bantu diviners

The intersection of culture and science in South African traditional medicine

www.scielo.org.za

However, the same research validation has not yet occurred for the majority of plants used for spiritual healing in South African traditional medicine. One reason for this may be because the psychological effects from the internal administration of psychoactive plants in humans are more difficult to test, assess and interpret using the scientific method than those producing physical effects.

Afaik, there's a lot of drumming and slaughtering of a goat. Maybe they take concoctions of herbs as well. I don't. But from what's publicly available, it sounds like Fritz was a nutcase.

yeah well, sometimes if you have a underlying psychotic problem, psychoactive drugs will bring that right to the surface. lots of studies around it. specially since cannabis is legal.

 

[Mar Vin]

Does the media always say a white farmer was killed by a black man?

Yup....always....or usually would just fall under the title "Farm murders"....no other farm murders are labelled that way.

 

[TheChamp]

told about? you have never seen traditional healers using psycoactive drugs, not even american indians or natives in the amazon for example?
but for your sake, lets simplify it and keep it closer to home.

Psychoactive ubulawu spiritual medicines and healing dynamics in the initiation process of Southern Bantu diviners - PubMed

The use of psychoactive plants by traditional healers in southern Africa appears to be a neglected area of ethnobotanical research. This article explores the healing dynamics involved in the use of popular psychoactive plant preparations known as ubulawu in the initiation rituals of Southern...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The intersection of culture and science in South African traditional medicine

www.scielo.org.za

yeah well, sometimes if you have a underlying psychotic problem, psychoactive drugs will bring that right to the surface. lots of studies around it. specially since cannabis is legal.

I never had American Indians in mind when I asked, No, I have never seen traditional healers using any form of drugs, it's usually a concoction of herbs and only the medicine man knows what's in there.

 

[Mar Vin]

I never had American Indians in mind when I asked, No, I have never seen traditional healers using any form of drugs, it's usually a concoction of herbs and only the medicine man knows what's in there.

@thechamp this is what they resort to when a white guy kills a black guy on a farm.

 

[ForceFate]

told about? you have never seen traditional healers using psycoactive drugs, not even american indians or natives in the amazon for example?
but for your sake, lets simplify it and keep it closer to home.

Psychoactive ubulawu spiritual medicines and healing dynamics in the initiation process of Southern Bantu diviners - PubMed

The use of psychoactive plants by traditional healers in southern Africa appears to be a neglected area of ethnobotanical research. This article explores the healing dynamics involved in the use of popular psychoactive plant preparations known as ubulawu in the initiation rituals of Southern...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The intersection of culture and science in South African traditional medicine

www.scielo.org.za

yeah well, sometimes if you have a underlying psychotic problem, psychoactive drugs will bring that right to the surface. lots of studies around it. specially since cannabis is legal.

They don't use cannabis in these rituals afaik. I can ask around, though I don't know if the methods are universal.

 

[millennia]

Dude looks and sounds as high as a kite. Somebody couldn't handle his drugs...

 

[TheChamp]

He could have been on drugs separately, it does not have to be part of the Sangoma training.

 

[access]

Afaik, there's a lot of drumming and slaughtering of a goat. Maybe they take concoctions of herbs as well. I don't. But from what's publicly available, it sounds like Fritz was a nutcase.

well now... cocain, heroin, weed, malpitte, et cetera.. are all 'erbs mon(plants)

They don't use cannabis in these rituals afaik. I can ask around, though I don't know if the methods are universal.

i think cannabis is probably of the lowest of psychoactives.. i never said it is used(but im sure some smoke for recreation). the first link mentions something used in initiation rituals.

the use of popular psychoactive plant preparations known as ubulawu in the initiation rituals

yes he could have taken drugs on his own. if there was no sangoma thing involved, i would not be wondering about it. its not sinister or out of the ordinary.


im sayin, hes on drugs... mmkay...


and mar vin, you can go sit on a illudium pu-36 space modulator

 

[ponder]

Afaik, there's a lot of drumming and slaughtering of a goat. Maybe they take concoctions of herbs as well. I don't. But from what's publicly available, it sounds like Fritz was a nutcase.

If one googles 'xhosa sangoma hallucinogenic' there will be links mentioning hallucinogenics but they are mostly research sites one does not have access to, I tried to register on two sites but they won't accept my gmail or outlook email addresses...

 

[access]

If one googles 'xhosa sangoma hallucinogenic' there will be links mentioning hallucinogenics but they are mostly research sites one does not have access to, I tried to register on two sites but they won't accept my gmail or outlook email addresses...

heres one. im sure they use their own made up concoctions as well..

Silene undulata - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Silene undulata is regarded by the Xhosa people as a sacred plant. Its root is traditionally used to induce vivid (and according to the Xhosa, prophetic) lucid dreams during the initiation process of shamans, classifying it a naturally occurring oneirogen similar to the more well-known dream herb Calea zacatechichi.

there are loads. search for psychoactive plants south africa



how many of these are found around here..

List of psychoactive plants - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ForceFate]

If one googles 'xhosa sangoma hallucinogenic' there will be links mentioning hallucinogenics but they are mostly research sites one does not have access to, I tried to register on two sites but they won't accept my gmail or outlook email addresses...

I did acknowledge my lack of knowledge of Xhosa rites and rituals in the subsequent post. But the man was clearly unhinged according to some accounts.

 

[SpliceGold]

I am still trying to understand what sort of friends these guys were, and the mad one was also a trainee Sango a even though he seemed to have found God towards the end.

Good question. Judging by the violent video I watched this dude was fking sick. One less piece of crap on this earth, I am happy he is dead after what he did. The videos of all of this was really emotional to watch, especially the one with him holding his child while he was on his knees. The actual video of the murder was removed from his facebook profile.

 

[Excalibur]

 

[ponder]

I did acknowledge my lack of knowledge of Xhosa rites and rituals in the subsequent post. But the man was clearly unhinged according to some accounts.

Not questioning what you said just adding to it

From watching the video I would say he was batschit crazy, drugs or no drugs. It's like a scene from a psychotic horror movie only worse because it's real