Eastern Province Kings rugby discussion thread

[MickeyD]

The Kings will help South African rugby tremendously. It will help the other South African teams to reach the top of the log easier.

Except the Lions, of course...

 

[cr@zydude]

The team played like **** last night. We could lose every game, but SA teams have done that before. The team needs better players, but this project is in trouble. No sponsor means that the only money that they are getting is from stadium operators, Access Facilities and Leisure Management. As dodgy as it seems, at least the Southern Kings don't need to get people into seats, they have already been paid for by Access.

 

[bwana]

The team played like **** last night. We could lose every game, but SA teams have done that before. The team needs better players, but this project is in trouble. No sponsor means that the only money that they are getting is from stadium operators, Access Facilities and Leisure Management. As dodgy as it seems, at least the Southern Kings don't need to get people into seats, they have already been paid for by Access.

I think the problem there is no sponsor wants to come onboard with only one guaranteed year.

 

[Devill]

Although I am laughing about it a bit it does remain sad. They are in for a hiding of note in the SuperRugby.

Either way I will always support them against the NZ and AUS teams. No Cape Crusader mentality from me.

+1. I will be supporting them 100% against NZ or Aus team.

I think the problem there is no sponsor wants to come onboard with only one guaranteed year.

And thus the reason why some were advocating securing them in the CC for a definite 3-4 years, have them build up the reserve power and get the finances into place. Then give them a two year shot at Super rugby once they have shown they can at least compete with the lower ranking teams in the Super Rugby series.

 

[cr@zydude]

I think the problem there is no sponsor wants to come onboard with only one guaranteed year.

I agree that it played a big part, but I'm sure that a deal could have been brokered. They may not have gotten what the other 4 teams got, but someone would have paid something to put a name on that shirt. The EP Kings have gone years without a sponsor, while the Pumas and Griffons have sponsors in the First Division, I put that down to poor negotiation skill at EP.

In the PSL we have Chippa United, which is headed straight for the NFD, but has a sponsor. Maritzburg have been up for years, but don't have one. Bay United lost a sponsor on moving from the NFD to PSL. It shows the differences in management teams. I think that EP are happy with their, guaranteed money from Access, and wouldn't drop their asking price for a main sponsor.

On a happier note, I have my Western Force tickets. See you guys on the 23rd.

 

[bwana]

I agree that it played a big part, but I'm sure that a deal could have been brokered. They may not have gotten what the other 4 teams got, but someone would have paid something to put a name on that shirt. The EP Kings have gone years without a sponsor, while the Pumas and Griffons have sponsors in the First Division, I put that down to poor negotiation skill at EP.

They've been trying, trust me.

 

[thestaggy]

+1. I will be supporting them 100% against NZ or Aus team.



And thus the reason why some were advocating securing them in the CC for a definite 3-4 years, have them build up the reserve power and get the finances into place. Then give them a two year shot at Super rugby once they have shown they can at least compete with the lower ranking teams in the Super Rugby series.

Ahead of unions, that are with all due respect, vastly superior to them? Nobody gave the Griquas a hand.

The Kings need to secure themselves a place in the Currie Cup by way of the rugby field and not have to go sniffing around political boardrooms.

 

[Devill]

Ahead of unions, that are with all due respect, vastly superior to them? Nobody gave the Griquas a hand.

The Kings need to secure themselves a place in the Currie Cup by way of the rugby field and not have to go sniffing around political boardrooms.

The Griekwas players actually play with the cheetahs in the Super Rugby comp.

That and the fact that the EP does breed a lot of SA's talent should be enough to help this along.

 

[thestaggy]

The Griekwas players actually play with the cheetahs in the Super Rugby comp.

That and the fact that the EP does breed a lot of SA's talent should be enough to help this along.

Yes, but they are in the Currie Cup and punching well above their weight. And that is what I am saying. As of yet the Kings, and before that the individual feeder unions, have proven unable to compete at the highest level of South African rugby and thus shouldn't have a place in the Currie Cup ''secured''.

 

[Devill]

Yes, but they are in the Currie Cup and punching well above their weight. And that is what I am saying. As of yet the Kings, and before that the individual feeder unions, have proven unable to compete at the highest level of South African rugby and thus shouldn't have a place in the Currie Cup ''secured''.

Why not? They are a larger union, and they could actually go on to compete in Super rugby under the right management and long to mid term planning.

I feel sorry for Griekwas but the fact that they are included in the Cheetahs feeding area list for Super Rugby,, gives the top guys a door.

That or have the Griekwas slot in with the EP, although logistics will be a problem again.

 

[thestaggy]

Why not? They are a larger union, and they could actually go on to compete in Super rugby under the right management and long to mid term planning.

I feel sorry for Griekwas but the fact that they are included in the Cheetahs feeding area list for Super Rugby,, gives the top guys a door.

That or have the Griekwas slot in with the EP, although logistics will be a problem again.

Size means nothing. Ability to build an efficient management structure and then put a quality product onto the field is what should matter. To oust the Cheetahs or Griquas (the Lions perform much better than either in the Currie Cup) in favour of the Kings at Currie Cup level is just not on. The Kings had the opportunity to show that they belong this year and were annihilated by the Cheetahs.

If they were placed in the Currie Cup willy-nilly, what happens if they pick up the wooden spoon (something I believe will happen for at least 2 or 3 seasons)? Will they receive a reprieve from playing the Cheetahs/Griquas in a playoff? Do you make the team finishing ahead of them in the Currie Cup face the Cheetahs/Griquas? Or do you just tell the Cheetahs/Griquas "Sorry, you may have won the First Division, but we can't let you back in". How is that fair to any of those unions?

 

[Devill]

Size means nothing. Ability to build an efficient management structure and then put a quality product onto the field is what should matter. To oust the Cheetahs or Griquas (the Lions perform much better than either in the Currie Cup) in favour of the Kings at Currie Cup level is just not on. The Kings had the opportunity to show that they belong this year and were annihilated by the Cheetahs.

If they were placed in the Currie Cup willy-nilly, what happens if they pick up the wooden spoon (something I believe will happen for at least 2 or 3 seasons)? Will they receive a reprieve from playing the Cheetahs/Griquas in a playoff? Do you make the team finishing ahead of them in the Currie Cup face the Cheetahs/Griquas? Or do you just tell the Cheetahs/Griquas "Sorry, you may have won the First Division, but we can't let you back in". How is that fair to any of those unions?

Two problems.

1) I never said relegate anyone. Enlarge the CC.
2) The Griekwas have limited potential. Unlike the Kings the Griekwas will just never have the man / talent power to compete.

I was not arguing that the Kings did not get an unfair hand out. I am one of the people that was against the whole idea being done so hastily and carelessly. I was merely pointing out that this should be seen as a long term solution. There are no quick fixes.

 

[thestaggy]

Two problems.

1) I never said relegate anyone. Enlarge the CC.
2) The Griekwas have limited potential. Unlike the Kings the Griekwas will just never have the man / talent power to compete.

I was not arguing that the Kings did not get an unfair hand out. I am one of the people that was against the whole idea being done so hastily and carelessly. I was merely pointing out that this should be seen as a long term solution. There are no quick fixes.

The problem would still be placing a team into a competition that it is clearly not ready for. On what we saw last season, if they were in the Currie Cup they'd do what the Leopards and Pumas done a few years back and pull of a win against a fellow weakling (and in all honesty, at this point there is no weakling in the smaller Currie Cup, they're all highly competitive teams with no guaranteed wins and traveling to the "minnows" in Kimbereley is arguably the toughest trip in the entire tournament). The rest of the time they'd be taking a fair few beatings. The reason why the Currie Cup was contracted in the first place was due to the fact that the bottom two teams were getting mauled far too often.

I would agree that the Kings are in a better position when compared to the Griquas, Leopards and Pumas to eventually develop into a more competitive union, but saying that I do not agree with lowering the standard of rugby and/or punishing other teams for them to achieve that. If they need to have 2 or 3 more playoffs to defeat a Currie Cup team, then that should be the natural progression they should be expected to make. If the Griquas, on their limited resources, can move from wooden spoonists to one of the toughest, never-say-die teams, then a well run union the size of the EP should be able to do it too.

 

[Devill]

The problem would still be placing a team into a competition that it is clearly not ready for. On what we saw last season, if they were in the Currie Cup they'd do what the Leopards and Pumas done a few years back and pull of a win against a fellow weakling (and in all honesty, at this point there is no weakling in the smaller Currie Cup, they're all highly competitive teams with no guaranteed wins and traveling to the "minnows" in Kimbereley is arguably the toughest trip in the entire tournament). The rest of the time they'd be taking a fair few beatings. The reason why the Currie Cup was contracted in the first place was due to the fact that the bottom two teams were getting mauled far too often.

I would agree that the Kings are in a better position when compared to the Griquas, Leopards and Pumas to eventually develop into a more competitive union, but saying that I do not agree with lowering the standard of rugby and/or punishing other teams for them to achieve that. If they need to have 2 or 3 more playoffs to defeat a Currie Cup team, then that should be the natural progression they should be expected to make. If the Griquas, on their limited resources, can move from wooden spoonists to one of the toughest, never-say-die teams, then a well run union the size of the EP should be able to do it too.

This is all true. And I get what you are saying but I was posting from the POV of SARU who WILL push this. Thus I was simply explaining the best way for it to be implemented imo.

 

[SukkaFoo]

Top of the SA conference #justsaying

 

[sand_man]

Well done Kings. Thoroughly enjoyed that.

Long time since I've seen guys play with that sort of passion.

Awesome crowd to boot.

 

[MickeyD]

Don't expect too much from the biggest disgrace in SA rugby! This S15 season will see a 100% increase in the worst points difference since the competition started.

At least the rest of our teams can look forward to 2 x bonus point wins...that's a good thing, not?

The Kings will help South African rugby tremendously. It will help the other South African teams to reach the top of the log easier.

 

[phoneJunky]

Well done Kings. My superbru prediction was Force by 15, glad that I was wrong though.

 

[Fiekus]

Very well played Kings. Can teach my Stormers a thing or two about hunger for a win! And what talent we've unearthed Not to be mean but the no.8 who replaced Luke played like a man possessed!
Was so nice to see them Ozzies taking hit after hit!
Haven't enjoyed a game like this in a long time, feel proud Kings supporters

 

[MickeyD]

And what talent we've unearthed Not to be mean but the no.8 who replaced Luke played like a man possessed!

Jacques Engelbrecht ...