EFF reports Gordhan to Public Protector after his statement to State Capture Commission leaks

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#21
Honest? There's no such thing as an honest politician.
They are certainly rare, but they do exist. I would rate several in SA amongst them. There should be many more. The old school ANC (many dead now: they will be turning in their graves at the activities of the 'struggle heroes' ) must be very embarrassed. There are some welcome signs that they are regaining influence. A bit slowly maybe, but on the up.
 

R13...

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#22
Having seen how he stood idly by during the entire N'Kandla saga and how he voted, multiple times, to keep Zuma as president I rate him a bit lower than you.
If he'd voted different we'd now have a R1trillion nuclear build program committed.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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#23
If he'd voted different we'd now have a R1trillion nuclear build program committed.
Maybe, maybe not.

It doesn't matter, this whole angle of "sometimes good men must stand by and do nothing for the even greater good" is not one I accept as vindication.
 
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#24
Having seen how he stood idly by during the entire N'Kandla saga and how he voted, multiple times, to keep Zuma as president I rate him a bit lower than you.
I suppose that he could have walked away - resigned - as others did, but that would not have been helpful. I think he made his feelings well known. But that is where I tend to despise politics and the bulk of politicians. 'Party first' really means 'me first to keep my snout in the trough'.
 

R13...

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#25
Maybe, maybe not.

It doesn't matter, this whole angle of "sometimes good men must stand by and do nothing for the even greater good" is not one I accept as vindication.
that's why you'd probably not last a breath in politics. you have to be able have the vision to see beyond playing to the gallery. if he'd gone against the ANC it would given the Zuma the pretext to have him expelled from the party which would have left the country to him and his hyenas.
 
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#26
that's why you'd probably not last a breath in politics. you have to be able have the vision to see beyond playing to the gallery. if he'd gone against the ANC it would given the Zuma the pretext to have him expelled from the party which would have left the country to him and his hyenas.
This is the thing that makes me wonder how great our constitution really is. One man quickly destroyed a bunch of institutions.
 

BBSA

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#27
that's why you'd probably not last a breath in politics. you have to be able have the vision to see beyond playing to the gallery. if he'd gone against the ANC it would given the Zuma the pretext to have him expelled from the party which would have left the country to him and his hyenas.
They is a good chance the hyenas would have lost next years election if Cyril and his faction joined the opposition.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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#28
that's why you'd probably not last a breath in politics. you have to be able have the vision to see beyond playing to the gallery. if he'd gone against the ANC it would given the Zuma the pretext to have him expelled from the party which would have left the country to him and his hyenas.
I don't care, if we're rating honesty levels here: supporting a criminal, for whatever reason, does not make one an honest man.
 

NarrowBandFtw

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#29
I suppose that he could have walked away - resigned - as others did, but that would not have been helpful. I think he made his feelings well known. But that is where I tend to despise politics and the bulk of politicians. 'Party first' really means 'me first to keep my snout in the trough'.
He could have made detailed statements in public just like the ones in his leaked affidavit to the Zondo commission and he could have voted the right way at the same time and basically dare Zuma to fire him.

He chose the easy way instead: wait for the ANC's election to hopefully sort things out.
 

thechamp

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#30
They is a good chance the hyenas would have lost next years election if Cyril and his faction joined the opposition.
Which opposition? and no, there is no good chance, Zuma would have had a free reign to capture even the IEC.
 
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#32
Maybe, maybe not.

It doesn't matter, this whole angle of "sometimes good men must stand by and do nothing for the even greater good" is not one I accept as vindication.
I am in sympathy with what you say. I prefer Burke's (now there was a politician I do admire) saying “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” I recognise that some attribute that to someone else, but be that as it may, the sentiment is good.
However his president, Zuma, practised the 'appointed at the behest of the president' concept (I wonder how this squares with the present president's alleged difficulty in getting rid of present unsatisfactory ministers?), and had he been sacked, as he eventually was, Mr. Gordhan could have done very little to keep the former president in check. I think he did what he could by refusing to authorise certain things, and it could be argued that he went after the big problems like the nuclear deal first. Nkandla was a bit of a sideshow compared to that.
I am not opposed to nuclear power by the way. Apparently the cost of producing electricity from Koeburg is pretty favourable, as it is in France where most electricity is nuclear generated. It is just that with the fingers of two presidents in the pie, the proposed deal with Russia would have been a poor one.
 

evilstebunny

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#33
This is the thing that makes me wonder how great our constitution really is. One man quickly destroyed a bunch of institutions.
It wasn't one man alone, the ANC practices a system of patronage where everything you are/have is beholden to the chief. That's why they all either looked the other way or protected him..

****ing communists.

Also, the architects of the constitution probably couldn't fathom the possibility of a president so dumb & desperate he'll destroy his own country for a bit of coin, that they didn't built in enough safeguards against our prime citizen.
 

thechamp

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#34
I am in sympathy with what you say. I prefer Burke's (now there was a politician I do admire) saying “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” I recognise that some attribute that to someone else, but be that as it may, the sentiment is good.
However his president, Zuma, practised the 'appointed at the behest of the president' concept (I wonder how this squares with the present president's alleged difficulty in getting rid of present unsatisfactory ministers?), and had he been sacked, as he eventually was, Mr. Gordhan could have done very little to keep the former president in check. I think he did what he could by refusing to authorise certain things, and it could be argued that he went after the big problems like the nuclear deal first. Nkandla was a bit of a sideshow compared to that.
I am not opposed to nuclear power by the way. Apparently the cost of producing electricity from Koeburg is pretty favourable, as it is in France where most electricity is nuclear generated. It is just that with the fingers of two presidents in the pie, the proposed deal with Russia would have been a poor one.
It will work in his and our advantage to have something that makes his decisions hard to challenge for his enemies in the ANC.
 
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#35
This is the thing that makes me wonder how great our constitution really is. One man quickly destroyed a bunch of institutions.
A very fair point. I think accountability to the electorate of the MPs is lacking. But the 'behind the scenes men' still rig votes where, as in the UK, one votes for a person as opposed to a party, They fix the selection of candidates.
 

thechamp

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#37
A very fair point. I think accountability to the electorate of the MPs is lacking. But the 'behind the scenes men' still rig votes where, as in the UK, one votes for a person as opposed to a party, They fix the selection of candidates.
There is absolutely no accountability to the electorate, it is the party that matters.
 

thechamp

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#40
But comrade @thechamp always complain if we are negative.
I should, complain when nothing is being done and complain even more when something is being done, go to the WC anti gang unit and see for yourself. I would never complain if the pessimism is reasonable.
 
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