Eight things you didn't know about magic mushrooms

[itareanlnotani]

Prolonged use != single high non-lethal dose having permanent lifelong effects.

Maybe you should learn to read and adjust your responses accordingly.

My reading skills are fine, thank you.

You specifically wrote this:

Your argument is misleading. Magic mushrooms (and LSD) cause permanent insanity at doses exponentially less than what is
needed to kill you.

There is nothing in there regarding prolonged use.
You mention permanent insanity - which has not been found to be true, in either single ultra high doses, high doses, or multiple regular doses.
In short you're talking ***.

 

[Xarog]

My reading skills are fine, thank you.

You specifically wrote this:

There is nothing in there regarding prolonged use.

Which begs the question, WHY did you respond to my post with links about associated health risks associated with long term consumption? Clearly, if I did not mention prolonged use, your post addressing prolonged use has no relevance to anything at all.

You mention permanent insanity - which has not been found to be true, in either single ultra high doses, high doses, or multiple regular doses.
In short you're talking ***.

I guess you didn't notice me admitting my mistake, either. You don't really read for ****, do you?

 

[itareanlnotani]

Which begs the question, WHY did you respond to my post with links about associated health risks associated with long term consumption? Clearly, if I did not mention prolonged use, your post addressing prolonged use has no relevance to anything at all.


I guess you didn't notice me admitting my mistake, either. You don't really read for ****, do you?

What post addressing prolonged use?

You made this claim:

"Magic mushrooms (and LSD) cause permanent insanity at doses exponentially less than what is needed to kill you."

I provided you 2 links that debunked that claim.
You then changed your claim as follows

Prolonged use != single high non-lethal dose having permanent lifelong effects.

Maybe you should learn to read and adjust your responses accordingly.

Which is also hokum. Now you're going with ad hominem attacks.
Drug use is often mistakenly associated with FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt), which you are apparently keen on spreading.

Man has been taking psilocybin and other associated hallucinogens for thousands of years.
If they were causing permanent insanity, we'd probably have noticed by now, and there would be quite a lot of case studies in prominent medical journals.

 

[Xarog]

What post addressing prolonged use?

You made this claim:

I provided you 2 links that debunked that claim.

No, you provided to links that debunk the claim that prolonged used leads to insanity, and that repeated use leads to being classified legally insane respectively.

You then changed your claim as follows

No, I said what my claim would have to be in order for your rebuttal to actually make any kind of sense at all. You're refuting a straw man which you set up by yourself.

Which is also hokum. Now you're going with ad hominem attacks.
Drug use is often mistakenly associated with FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt), which you are apparently keen on spreading.

I'm not going with ad-hominem attacks. I'm calling you out on the fact that you provided ****ty links which did nothing but refute make believe statements you yourself have admitted I did not at any point make. Get real please.

Man has been taking psilocybin and other associated hallucinogens for thousands of years.
If they were causing permanent insanity, we'd probably have noticed by now, and there would be quite a lot of case studies in prominent medical journals.

Congratulations Captain Obvious. Would you like to add more to this thread that serves no purpose but to waste everyone's time? Or do you just enjoy beating dead horses the same way most guys enjoy choking a chicken? (Note: this is what a real ad-hominem looks like.)

 

[itareanlnotani]

No, you provided to links that debunk the claim that prolonged used leads to insanity, and that repeated use leads to being classified legally insane respectively.


No, I said what my claim would have to be in order for your rebuttal to actually make any kind of sense at all. You're refuting a straw man which you set up by yourself.




I'm not going with ad-hominem attacks. I'm calling you out on the fact that you provided ****ty links which did nothing but refute make believe statements you yourself have admitted I did not at any point make. Get real please.


Congratulations Captain Obvious. Would you like to add more to this thread that serves no purpose but to waste everyone's time? Or do you just enjoy beating dead horses the same way most guys enjoy choking a chicken? (Note: this is what a real ad-hominem looks like.)

Lets look at the links, which as I said, discuss the claim you made, and debunk it.

Your claim:

"Magic mushrooms (and LSD) cause permanent insanity at doses exponentially less than what is needed to kill you.""

My claim:

Horsepoopy

Which, I backed up with links debunking your claim.
And again, claims of insanity at high doses are specifically debunked in the very links provided.

Wikipedia -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_legends_about_drugs#Legally_insane

Man permanently thinks he is a glass of orange juice (or thinks he becomes an orange)
Another common legend, again dating back to the 1960s, was that a man who took LSD went insane and permanently thought that he was a glass of orange juice. Because of this, he could never bend over, slept upright and did not make any sudden movements. Alternative versions sometimes have the man thinking he is a glass of milk or a whole orange. Another version of this myth states that the man believed he had become an orange, and was afraid he would be 'peeled' by his friends.[20]


Police officer unwittingly drinks LSD[edit]
In this legend, which dates back to 1970, a police (or customs) officer pulls over a driver believed to have been drinking, sees that the driver has a water bottle, and demands a taste of it to see if it contains alcohol. The officer does not taste any alcohol, so the driver either gets off completely or merely gets a speeding ticket. Shortly afterward, the officer begins tripping very hard and stares into space, since the swig of "water" he took actually contained numerous "hits" of LSD. In some versions of the legend, the officer consumes enough LSD to actually go insane. According to Snopes.com, there are no verifiable reports of this ever happening, even decades after the legend was first told, and it is thus considered spurious.[21] However, there have been recent accounts of officers dosed while on the job.[22]


The other link was a Snopes link, and I have already excerpted the relevant section from that in a previous post.

 

[Garson007]

WAY more mellow than LSD.

Also completely different.

 

[Xarog]

Lets look at the links, which as I said, discuss the claim you made, and debunk it.

Your claim:


My claim:



Which, I backed up with links debunking your claim.

You are wrong.

You did not debunk my claim. You debunked two claims I did not make. You could be absolutely correct on both your points and yet it could still be perfectly plausible that nevertheless high acute doses could lead to cases of permanent insanity. In both cases, you are addressing and debunking the supposed symptoms of chronic use.

Do you see anything specific to chronic use in my claim? No. Do both of your links deal specifically with the effects of chronic LSD use? Do you begin to see the problem?

And again, claims of insanity at high doses are specifically debunked in the very links provided.

Wikipedia -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_legends_about_drugs[b]#Legally_insane[/b]

Your link points to this:

Legally insane

There is an urban legend that a person who has used LSD more than seven times is automatically declared legally insane. The same claim is often suggested with large doses, the difference being that the person is considered psychotic only for the duration of the trip. An extension of this legend is that a person who does LSD more than "X number of times" is permanently disqualified from the military as a result of being "legally insane," a version which was likely inspired by wishful thinking of drug-using draft dodgers in the 1960s. However, no such law exists, at least not in the United States.[17]

A version of this legend was repeated as fact on TV's Dragnet series in 1967, in an episode revolving around the use of LSD before it was made illegal. The script described a shipment containing "one pound of LSD [tabs], enough to turn the entire population of Los Angeles into dangerous psychotics" on the premise that one dose made a person legally insane due to the recurrence of completely unpredictable flashbacks throughout the user's life after a single dose.

The other link was a Snopes link, and I have already excerpted the relevant section from that in a previous post.

Yeah, except it again deals specifically with chronic drug use where my initial statement made no specification.

 

[Garson007]

There was some mention of psychosis but it's unclear if it remains after the trip ends.

Psychosis definitely can happen, and personally I know it has happened to me (smoking cannabis while tripping wasn't a good idea). However it did not last past the "trip" as it were.

 

[itareanlnotani]

I've given references to my refutations of your claim.

How about you come up with some proof that LSD or other psychedelics cause permanent insanity as you claim?

I'll allow you the option of any usage - eg repeated use, or single large usage, or overdose, or any dosage type / factor.
Go ahead and show some proof.

 

[Garson007]

SSRIs permanently changes your brain chemistry, yet there are likely multiple people on your office floor currently on it. How is this different to the use of hallucinogenics?

 

[Nerfherder]

much preferred lsd over shrooms because of the nausea especially and the panic attacks popping up as you start tripping is not enjoyable.

Ye, the binging of the shroom trip is not fun and the trip is very mello, which is why most just take LSD. They want more 'trip' and less *** bits.

Personally the 12 odd ours of vivid hallucinations from LSD is not as nice as the chilled out trip of shrooms

 

[semaphore]

panaeolus cambodginiensis that is all.

 

[itareanlnotani]

SSRIs permanently changes your brain chemistry, yet there are likely multiple people on your office floor currently on it. How is this different to the use of hallucinogenics?

The main SSRI study that gets referred to in the media this one http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/09/140918121436.htm

Is stated changes to brain chemistry, but didn't say permanently. The media on the other hand took that and ran with permanent changes..
I have yet to see literature which states permanent change, so I think you're mistaken.

How many of your office staff run around tripping balls on hallucinogenics is the real question though

 

[Xarog]

I've given references to my refutations of your claim.

You did not refute my claim. You refuted two claims which were only indirectly related to my claim in that they happened to be other claims about the same drug. No matter how many times you try to say you refuted my claim, your assertions to that effect have been demonstrated beyond any shred of a doubt of being false.

How about you come up with some proof that LSD or other psychedelics cause permanent insanity as you claim?

Lol.

I. Already. Admitted. My. Mistake.

And it was as a result of Copacetic asking me politely in the first place to provide evidence for my assertions. I stated what I found, said that it was inconclusive. The obvious conclusion from that point, which should not even need to be said, which I nevertheless did say, is that inconclusive results in there being nothing to prove the validity of the claim. In the absence of any evidence despite looking, a negative conclusion is reasonable.

I'll allow you the option of any usage - eg repeated use, or single large usage, or overdose, or any dosage type / factor.
Go ahead and show some proof.

I'll allow you some time to get your head out your ass. Despite my being wrong and admitting my mistake, that doesn't make the dogturd of an excuse for an argument you presented smell any better.

 

[Datura]

Knew 5/8...

Thanks for the other 3

Very good for insomnia!

 

[semaphore]

Xarog, do you usually make outlandish claims without at least doing some preliminary research on the topic at hand?

 

[itareanlnotani]

I'll allow you some time to get your head out your ass. Despite my being wrong and admitting my mistake, that doesn't make the dogturd of an excuse for an argument you presented smell any better.

I accept your dogturd of an apology

 

[Xarog]

Xarog, do you usually make outlandish claims without at least doing some preliminary research on the topic at hand?

Well, no, I tend to make sure that doesn't happen. This particular claim just came from someone who I trusted about drugs in general by virtue of their general experimentation with various drugs.

I don't really see what the big deal is. I mean it took me all of 9 minutes to react to Copacetic's post and admit the lack of evidence for the claim, no?

That in no way detracts from the fact that I refuse to accept an argument that debunks a statement I did not make as also debunking the statement I did make when the two claims are materially different.

 

[Xarog]

I accept your dogturd of an apology

There is no apology. You had nothing to do with the admission of my error, that was Copacetic's doing. Stop taking credit for other people's effort.

 

[itareanlnotani]

There is no apology. You had nothing to do with the admission of my error, that was Copacetic's doing. Stop taking credit for other people's effort.

[video=youtube;moSFlvxnbgk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk[/video]