Electric vehicles vs fuel-powered cars - Longest ranges compared

[Hanno Labuschagne]

Electric vehicles vs fuel-powered cars - Longest ranges compared

Fossil fuel-based cars are still many miles ahead of electric battery-powered vehicles when it comes to maximum potential trip ranges.

This has been one of the biggest challenges proponents of electric cars have faced in convincing consumers to embrace the new technology.

This psychological barrier is what is commonly referred to as "range anxiety", the fear of being unable to get to one's destination or the next charging point before running out of power.

 

[SilverCode]

This psychological barrier is what is commonly referred to as "range anxiety", the fear of being unable to get to one's destination or the next charging point before running out of power.

I have this exact same anxiety with my petrol based car. "Am I going to make it to the petrol station before I run out of petrol?". One neat trick I've picked up over the years to ease this anxiety is to make sure I have enough petrol in my car before setting off to the destination. If I don't, I put some petrol in before setting off. I'm no electric car whiz, but I would think the same trick could be applied to them.

 

[FiestaST]

My personal EV choice in that list would be the Ford Mackey. Good balance between speed & functionality, nothing overkill.

2nd choice would be the 2nd Polestar.

 

[system32]

Headline:

Electric vehicles vs fuel-powered cars - Longest ranges compared

How about comparing:

• Oil change intervals compared
• Fuel cost per km compared
• Acceleration compared
• Maintenance costs compared
• Service intervals compared
• Safety ratings compared
• Clutch replace intervals compared
• Fuel up at home compared
• Tailpipe emissions compared
• Cradle to grave emissions compared

Using one metric does not make sense.

 

[Nod]

Headline:

How about comparing:

• Oil change intervals compared
• Fuel cost per km compared
• Acceleration compared
• Maintenance costs compared
• Service intervals compared
• Safety ratings compared
• Clutch replace intervals compared
• Fuel up at home compared
• Tailpipe emissions compared

Using one metric does not make sense.

Here is the Tesla maintenance breakdown: https://www.motor1.com/reviews/406938/tesla-maintenance-cost/

Year	Service	Cost
1	Tire rotation	$100
2	Full service with A/C	$525
3	Tire rotation	$100
4	Full service with brake flush	$585
5	Tire rotation	$100

 

[wingnut771]

Here is the Tesla maintenance breakdown: https://www.motor1.com/reviews/406938/tesla-maintenance-cost/

$100 to rotate tyres.

 

[system32]

$100 to rotate tyres.

Most car manufactures recommended to rotate your tires - not Tesla specific.

Americans and their money are soon parted.
I take my car to Supa Quick for rotation + balancing + alignment for the low low price of R1400.
Much cheaper than $100 - those mericans.

 

[wingnut771]

Most car manufactures recommended to rotate your tires - not Tesla specific.

Americans and their money are soon parted.
I take my car to Supa Quick for rotation + balancing + alignment for the low low price of R1400.
Much cheaper than $100 - those mericans.

 

[Geoff.D]

I have this exact same anxiety with my petrol based car. "Am I going to make it to the petrol station before I run out of petrol?". One neat trick I've picked up over the years to ease this anxiety is to make sure I have enough petrol in my car before setting off to the destination. If I don't, I put some petrol in before setting off. I'm no electric car whiz, but I would think the same trick could be applied to them.

Except the time needed to charge and the limit on the amount of charge the batteries can take.

The trick with combustion vehicles is to drive quickly to the next petrol point so that you can get there before your run out of fuel.

Combustion vehicles have the added edge that it is always easy to carry a few extra jerry cans .......

 

[Nemesys]

Most car manufactures recommended to rotate your tires - not Tesla specific.

Americans and their money are soon parted.
I take my car to Supa Quick for rotation + balancing + alignment for the low low price of R1400.
Much cheaper than $100 - those mericans.

R1400 =92.3 USD



r1400

 

[Johnatan56]

Except the time needed to charge and the limit on the amount of charge the batteries can take.

The trick with combustion vehicles is to drive quickly to the next petrol point so that you can get there before your run out of fuel.

Combustion vehicles have the added edge that it is always easy to carry a few extra jerry cans .......

Yeah, not really an issue since you're going to get into the routine to always plug in your car at night, and forgetting to charge is something like 20 minutes for 50%, so should get you to your destination. We're also slowly getting to the point of installing charging plates for cars, so won't even need to remember to charge it.

EV is the future, question is more early adopter tax right now until batteries can become cheap enough and it will probably be a race to see who can make the cheapest electric car.

In 2010, the price of an EV battery pack was over $1,000 per kWh. That fell to $150 per kWh in 2019. The challenge for the automotive industry is figuring out how to drive the cost down further.


The Department of Energy goal for the industry is to reduce the price of battery packs to less than $100/kWh and ultimately to about $80/kWh. At these battery price points, the sticker price of an EV is likely to be lower than that of a comparable combustion engine vehicle.

The road to electric vehicles with lower sticker prices than gas cars – battery costs explained

EVs will have lower sticker prices than gas vehicles when batteries are cheaper. Getting there comes down to knowing where to cut costs.

theconversation.com

And that's why Tesla is valued so highly, they're the most likely to come out with the battery tech.

Everything You Need To Know About Tesla's New 4680 Battery Cell - CleanTechnica

Tesla didn't hold back at Battery Day, announcing a new tabless 4680 cell form factor, among many other things.

cleantechnica.com

All told, Tesla’s new 4680 battery cell represents a paradigm shift in automotive energy storage. The new cells are far cheaper and can store far more power per unit of volume. They have been redesigned a as structural elements of the vehicle, resulting in a cheaper, more rigid vehicle.


Tesla rolled out hundreds if not thousands of small improvements today that bring step change improvements to the fundamental building block of Tesla’s business — the battery cell.

• 14% improvement in cost/kWh coming from the change in cell form factor.
• 18% improvement in cost/kWh as a result of the 10× manufacturing footprint reduction and 10× manufacturing energy consumption reduction. The new dry manufacturing process enables pressing the active battery powder material directly into a film. The new manufacturing process is based on Maxwell Technologies’ proprietary “proof of concept” process. Process is not at production scale yet, but there is a “clear path” to large scale production.
• 5% improvement in cost/kWh coming from the increase utilization of silicon in the battery cells.
• 12% reduction in cost/kWh coming from improvements in the cathode material.
• 7% improvement in battery pack cost per kWh as a result of Tesla’s new integrated vehicle design. Tesla redesigned its vehicles using new front and rear castings that integrate with the battery pack. To accomplish this, Tesla developed a completely new alloy to enable casting of some of the largest components in the automotive space. These bolt directly into a new “structural battery,” eliminating the need for redundant, parallel elements in Teslas.

All told, Tesla’s redesign of the battery, cathode, and vehicle frame translate to an expected improvement of 56% in Tesla’s cost per kWh. That’s a game changer for Tesla and will enable a completely new generation of low cost electric vehicles. It all starts with the humble battery cell. Tesla has made significant progress in rethinking the battery cell and is well along the way to rolling these new cells into production. But all told, it will take the company 18 months for most of these changes to get to production.

Everything You Need To Know About Tesla's New 4680 Battery Cell - CleanTechnica

Tesla didn't hold back at Battery Day, announcing a new tabless 4680 cell form factor, among many other things.

cleantechnica.com

 

[|tera|]

I couldn't find exactly what I know right now. But Japan is actively busy with R&D to charge EV's while they drive.
Either on road surface level or via electro fields. Here's a bit about it.

New tech lets electric vehicles wirelessly charge as they drive, Japanese team says

Widely seen as the wave of the future, electric vehicles have faced a serious hurdle in pushing the technology to match or surpass the distance that tradit

www.japantimes.co.jp

 

[Johand]

I can't wait for electric cars to arrive. I am holding onto my current car until I can go electric...

Range is not a real issue - just require planning. And BTW the batteries charge while going downhill. And regenerative breaking is awesome. The most surprising thing for me about tesla 's was that their brakepads last almost forever...

 

[Moto Guzzi]

Electric vehicles vs fuel-powered cars - Longest ranges compared

Fossil fuel-based cars are still many miles ahead of electric battery-powered vehicles when it comes to maximum potential trip ranges.

This has been one of the biggest challenges proponents of electric cars have faced in convincing consumers to embrace the new technology.

This psychological barrier is what is commonly referred to as "range anxiety", the fear of being unable to get to one's destination or the next charging point before running out of power.

Fuel cars/trucks/towtrucks/Farm Equipment etc developed with the fossil fuel ideology over time from population numbers around 2 Billion to now 7 Billion scale.
Now here is a problem-Electric cars are dumped on the market a few compared at 7 Billion scale. The thing is its success has not been proven at a scale of 7 Billion+.
Now say tomorrow we woke up and all current numbers of fuel vehicles are suddenly electric, so what do you think is going to happen at that scale moving forward, the green people have such a dream.

All this at the scale of 7 Billion +.
-A petrol car can run full blast at 10% fuel in tank, how is 10% battery sounds like-?
-Electric vehicles cannot claim success as electric trains running on tracks, the roads are much different and free.
-The weak point is the battery, and some miracle must happen to bring a battery up to the freedom of a fuel tank.
-It can be good in small town go to shops, but it must be dirt cheap vehicles.
-Battery life before it starts to loose holding power, I know everything is good when new and shiny.

 

[Geoff.D]

Yeah, not really an issue since you're going to get into the routine to always plug in your car at night, and forgetting to charge is something like 20 minutes for 50%, so should get you to your destination. We're also slowly getting to the point of installing charging plates for cars, so won't even need to remember to charge it.

EV is the future, question is more early adopter tax right now until batteries can become cheap enough and it will probably be a race to see who can make the cheapest electric car.

And that's why Tesla is valued so highly, they're the most likely to come out with the battery tech.

Everything You Need To Know About Tesla's New 4680 Battery Cell - CleanTechnica

Tesla didn't hold back at Battery Day, announcing a new tabless 4680 cell form factor, among many other things.

cleantechnica.com

Where are all those charging points for cars going to be located for those that dont have garages etc? What about all those cars parked in the street? Ditto for charging plates?
No electric cars are for the well off only.

 

[Johand]

Where are all those charging points for cars going to be located for those that dont have garages etc? What about all those cars parked in the street? Ditto for charging plates?
No electric cars are for the well off only.

Maybe for the well off in the short-term, but distribution for electricity is a lot easier problem to solve than for example hydrogen and logistically it will be a lot easier than the infrastructure than what was build up for petrol (distribution networks already in place for electricity!)

The footprint of a charging station is really, really small. We will see charge points at offices, malls, gyms and - yes - curb-side charging stations. With enough demand you will see charging stations pop-up everywhere.

A petrol station cost between R1 million and R20 million with huge operating cost. A commercial electric charge point cost between R15 000 and R150 000 with very, very little overhead (self service, all electronic payments, no big land tracks to rent). Would be a nice little passive revenue stream for municipalities and other land-owners.

But yes -- early adopters will be the more well-off until the infrastructure can be rolled out. But considering how quickly fibre was rolled out and electric charge points will be cheaper to implement - I have high hopes.

 

[Johnatan56]

Where are all those charging points for cars going to be located for those that dont have garages etc? What about all those cars parked in the street? Ditto for charging plates?
No electric cars are for the well off only.

As Johand said, pretty easy to roll out charge points in most places, and the price will drop quite quickly (it's already not that expensive if thinking of communal charge points).

How Long Does It Take to Charge an Electric Car? | Pod Point

A complete guide on how long it takes to charge an electric car, the factors that influence charging time and the concept of top-up charging.

pod-point.com

Note though that for most it's something like 15 minutes / 100km, most don't do that long trips, I think I used to average 50km/day so <10 minutes of charging a day if I do it every day wouldn't really be an issue every second day, and I'm pretty sure most work places will offer it in their parking lots if it becomes cheap enough to install and demand is there from employees, easy perk to add where you can have the employee swipe (and there will definitely be companies that will install/manage for you). Assuming rapid charge for those install points btw, so 50-150kW, if you have dedicated stuff/not home, they'd probably try and make service as fast as possible, would be dumb not to.

 

[Geoff.D]

Maybe for the well off in the short-term, but distribution for electricity is a lot easier problem to solve than for example hydrogen and logistically it will be a lot easier than the infrastructure than what was build up for petrol (distribution networks already in place for electricity!)

The footprint of a charging station is really, really small. We will see charge points at offices, malls, gyms and - yes - curb-side charging stations. With enough demand you will see charging stations pop-up everywhere.

A petrol station cost between R1 million and R20 million with huge operating cost. A commercial electric charge point cost between R15 000 and R150 000 with very, very little overhead (self service, all electronic payments, no big land tracks to rent). Would be a nice little passive revenue stream for municipalities and other land-owners.

But yes -- early adopters will be the more well-off until the infrastructure can be rolled out. But considering how quickly fibre was rolled out and electric charge points will be cheaper to implement - I have high hopes.

Fibre quick to roll out?
40 years there abouts quick? We are years away from ubiquitous use of electric cars. Not saying it should not happen, just saying it is going to take a very long time.

 

[Johand]

Fibre quick to roll out?
40 years there abouts quick? We are years away from ubiquitous use of electric cars. Not saying it should not happen, just saying it is going to take a very long time.

Well - I meant to say once Vumatel got going most of the metropoles were covered quick-quick.

As in all things - people tend to overestimate short term change and underestimate long term change. Progress in the first 2-3 years will seem slow and frustrating but after 5 to 8 years people look back at how far and fast it was deployed. Same thing happened with fibre - it was agonising at first, but today even small towns are getting fibre (which is something I didn't expect to happen so fast).

 

[Corelli]

You see in Europe every 200m is a charging point whereas here its every 200kms.

So in Europe electric cars make sense. Here it would too. Imagine how much smog will be removed. Imagine the joys of the car driving itself in traffic. But then imagine Eskom that could make so much money from this its scary, but they dont even consider it and why?

How many petrol attendants will be out of jobs? Tens of thousands or more? Not good for the voting members so stuff that. The government will delay as long as possible (they also make almost half the fuel price on taxes). Suddenly no more tax? Nope

We will be so persuaded never to switch because as the oil companies loose clients by the hoardes in Asia, Europe and US. Here they can still make trillions, while the world gets destroyed with pollution.