Electricity minister meets Chinese ambassador to discuss load-shedding

[AlphaJohn]

Stayed and worked in China for 3 years (Pre 2010) and I can simply say "Hier kom groot kak"
Sure they do things fast, but they lack quality control. Chinese concreate and steel really sucks and if you go look at how buildings fall apart in China itself you will understand.

Also See

China’s Global Mega-Projects Are Falling Apart

Many of China’s Belt and Road infrastructure projects are plagued with construction flaws, including a giant hydropower plant in Ecuador, adding more costs to a program criticized for leading countries deeper into debt; “They’re falling apart bit by bit.”

www.wsj.com

How Angola’s honeymoon with China came to an end - The Africa Report.com

Angola is turning the page on its decades-long reliance on Chinese investment.

www.theafricareport.com

As an example

You can simply Google for loads more, from Ethiopia to Kenja.

Oh wait I have a plan, they should go build a Nuclear power station next to Nkandla, yeah that will work for me.

 

[AlphaJohn]

I dont have a problem with China taking over but I do have a problem with the greedy government **** officials that just want instant money but no light at the end of the tunnel... honestly it would be better if the Chinese government takes over and runs the show - at least we will have power and water and a functional country

You have noooooo clue do you?

China have power problems of their own all the time.

 

[system32]

Here comes the Predatory Loans from China,

Do you have examples of this?
"Chinese lenders account for 12 per cent of Africa's private and public external debt", but you knew that.
As you know, China offers loans to build infrastructure whereas the bulk of Africa's loads are with World Bank and IMF and is mostly interest payments.
Africa still waiting for B3W's empty promises to materialize vs BRI which has a proven tack record.

 

[system32]

Genuinely excellent idea, the Chinese are putting up coal fires stations at record pace they could definitely do it here also

True, but they also world leaders in Solar & Wind, with more Solar & Wind deployed that all others.

 

[Manoj1za]

Electricity minister asks China for help to fight load-shedding

Electricity minister Kgosientsho Ramokgopa has met with the Chinese ambassador to South Africa to discuss areas of collaboration to end load-shedding.

President Cyril Ramaphosa appointed Ramokgopa as the new energy minister on 7 March 2023 to address problems at Eskom and end load-shedding.

How stupid can one be? After the well known experience that Sri Lanka and Pakistan has had with the Chinese you still believe its a good idea to involve China? You must be corrupt! Why is the ANC hurting its own people, its own country so?!

 

[now05ster]

They use the good enough principle. They're not encumbered by things like consultantion and regulations. Where there are regulations they're treated more as suggestions.

The Chabuduo Mindset

What does "chabuduo" actually mean in China? Here's a simple analysis of Chinese pragmatism and how it might conflict with your western attention to detail.

www.chinaexpatsociety.com

 

[Quicks]

This is funny, there just nothing these muppets can do for themselves. Why did we need a minister if electricity? Should just have phoned China from start and sell 10% of the country for exchange they fix the electricity / Eskom.

 

[Cranjus McBasketball]

The Chabuduo Mindset

What does "chabuduo" actually mean in China? Here's a simple analysis of Chinese pragmatism and how it might conflict with your western attention to detail.

www.chinaexpatsociety.com

On reflection that's still better than how SA operates.

 

[AlphaJohn]

True, but they also world leaders in Solar & Wind, with more Solar & Wind deployed that all others.

World leaders in "manufacturing stolen IP" yes 100%. They simply stole the IP, and used forced labor & subsidies to kill the competition.

R&D oh hell no. They waaaay behind.

China Helped Make Solar Power Cheap Through Subsidies, Coal And Allegedly, Forced Labor

China is still the cheap labor leader, though increasingly it looks like forced labor helps keep costs down.

www.forbes.com

Here’s What Chinese Hackers Actually Stole From U.S. Companies

A run-down of exactly what "trade secrets" Chinese hackers are accused of stealing from U.S. metals and solar power companies, and a labor union

time.com

 

[Vanessa13]

Firstly, we don't need China. We only need to be rid of all the thieves and terrorists who have anything at all to do with Eskom. Problem solved. Secondly, if China bails us out, they will only steal that money and we will sit with the same problem, except we will be greatly indebted to China and they will have us by the balls. This idiot needs to be fired.

 

[Vanessa13]

STOP CORRUPTION and CLAWBACK ALL STOLEN MONIES ? Shouldn't that be the 1st step ? Why do we need outside help when we had enough electricity for decades before the anc ?

We don't. It's just another way to desperately cling to power they do not deserve.

 

[Vanessa13]

In Africa colonialism is only wrong if the colonizer is white. I welcome Chinese colonialism for SA, it can only be much better than ANC rule.

Err okay then. Did you forget to take your meds today?

 

[Vanessa13]

I dont have a problem with China taking over but I do have a problem with the greedy government **** officials that just want instant money but no light at the end of the tunnel... honestly it would be better if the Chinese government takes over and runs the show - at least we will have power and water and a functional country

No no no. It would not be better.

 

[Vanessa13]

China will never take over because the 1st thing China will do is to execute the entire ANC for corruption. And then they will end the EFF with their army.

This, I could live with. But then we would sit with an even bigger problem. Sometimes, 'better the devil you know' is the best thing.

 

[Vanessa13]

That is a small price to pay to live in a functional state. The Chinese can also watch Spiderman.

Small? You must be joking. NOTHING is more important than freedom. If I was forced to choose between electricity 24/7 or my freedom, my freedom would win every time. It's not even a competition.

 

[TheChamp]

Firstly, we don't need China. We only need to be rid of all the thieves and terrorists who have anything at all to do with Eskom. Problem solved. Secondly, if China bails us out, they will only steal that money and we will sit with the same problem, except we will be greatly indebted to China and they will have us by the balls. This idiot needs to be fired.

You guys are just too much in denial, Eskom is a mess and cannot produce enough power, we can moan about what caused that until the cows come home, it won't fix anything, all the measure that are being punted, especially on the demand side management needs a supplier who will be able to come to the party in a big way, and that is China, the bid for battery power storage has just been opened, where do you think those batteries will be coming from?

The solar equipment the IPPs and consumers need to setup the solar plants and home installs? You guessed it, China, the training for the workforce we need who will be installing the equipment? again China.

Seriously getting triggered at the mere mention of China is not going to help us with anything, we all need to calm down and get on with it.

 

[Cranjus McBasketball]

World leaders in "manufacturing stolen IP" yes 100%. They simply stole the IP, and used forced labor & subsidies to kill the competition.

R&D oh hell no. They waaaay behind.

China Helped Make Solar Power Cheap Through Subsidies, Coal And Allegedly, Forced Labor

China is still the cheap labor leader, though increasingly it looks like forced labor helps keep costs down.

www.forbes.com

Here’s What Chinese Hackers Actually Stole From U.S. Companies

A run-down of exactly what "trade secrets" Chinese hackers are accused of stealing from U.S. metals and solar power companies, and a labor union

time.com

China and Dubai. Both countries lauded for their massive progress. I mean Dubai exploded in under 50 years from desert wasteland to what it is now. China bangs out infrastructure faster than it takes to even plan a build here. But both China and Dubai are built by modern-day slavery. A lot of the Gulf is built with the dirty little secret of forced labour. I mean they estimate that 90% of Dubai's migrant workforce lives under conditions considered modern slavery.

0,3% of China's population lives in modern slavery. Doesn't sound high but that's 3,8 million people.
Point being that it's impossible to develop to the levels these places have, so quickly, without being absolute bastards. None of this sounds like a recipe for a solution to our problems.

 

[AlphaJohn]

You guys are just too much in denial, Eskom is a mess and cannot produce enough power, we can moan about what caused that until the cows come home, it won't fix anything, all the measure that are being punted, especially on the demand side management needs a supplier who will be able to come to the party in a big way, and that is China, the bid for battery power storage has just been opened, where do you think those batteries will be coming from?

The solar equipment the IPPs and consumers need to setup the solar plants and home installs? You guessed it, China, the training for the workforce we need who will be installing the equipment? again China.

Seriously getting triggered at the mere mention of China is not going to help us with anything, we all need to calm down and get on with it.

I don't have a problem with products coming from China, I have a problem with China being in full control of the entire chain. Manufacture, build & install. At least if they only supply, someone can inspect and reject quality if not up to spec.

Something the previous company I worked for know too well:
German co: specced something, get sample, test, give OK.
3 months down the line products start failing, check again oh China co started swapping stuff for subpar parts.
Go back, "oh sorry fixed".
4 months later same ****.
Rince and repeat.

If you don't have someone overseeing what gets made you gonna end up with crap. Ask Ecuador:

Ecuador power company discovers more problems at Chinese-built plant

Ecuador's power company CELEC has found new problems at its Coca Codo Sinclair hydroelectric plant that threaten water flow and electricity generation, the company's chief executive said, the latest issue at the facility built by China's Sinohydro Corp.

www.reuters.com

 

[TheChamp]

I don't have a problem with products coming from China, I have a problem with China being in full control of the entire chain. Manufacture, build & install. At least if they only supply, someone can inspect and reject quality if not up to spec.

Something the previous company I worked for know too well:
German co: specced something, get sample, test, give OK.
3 months down the line products start failing, check again oh China co started swapping stuff for subpar parts.
Go back, "oh sorry fixed".
4 months later same ****.
Rince and repeat.

If you don't have someone overseeing what gets made you gonna end up with crap. Ask Ecuador:

Ecuador power company discovers more problems at Chinese-built plant

Ecuador's power company CELEC has found new problems at its Coca Codo Sinclair hydroelectric plant that threaten water flow and electricity generation, the company's chief executive said, the latest issue at the facility built by China's Sinohydro Corp.

www.reuters.com

But who said anything about China being in full control of anything? Sounds like the paranoia that always comes out when someone mentions China.

Here is what the Minister said, how do we go from that to China controlling everything?

Ramokgopa recently met with the Chinese Ambassador to South Africa to discuss areas of collaboration to end the rolling blackouts.

He highlighted five potential areas where the countries could collaborate.

1. Sourcing technical expertise.
2. Demand-side management intervention as it relates to supply.
3. Training young people to meet demands for Solar PV installations.
4. Introducing micro-grids.
5. Emergency power.

This engagement followed a previous meeting with Business Unity South Africa, which focussed on areas of collaboration between the government and businesses to resolve the energy crisis.

 

[AlphaJohn]

But who said anything about China being in full control of anything? Sounds like the paranoia that always comes out when someone mentions China.

Here is what the Minister said, how do we go from that to China controlling everything?

Like I said I do not have a problem with that as long as it stays with supply only
ie: Dont want some deal to build some station bull-crap, what other here are commenting on.