Electricity prices in South Africa relatively cheap, but still more expensive than Zimbabwe and Zambia

Not surprised again - the current government is (has already) destroying the country.
 
Can we stop the BS.

No consumer in SA is paying R1.23 per KWH. I don't know why this keeps getting used as if consumers pay it.

That might be the rate before municipal fees etc. is added on top of the base fee that the consumer then end up paying that is at least 50% higher than this R1.23 per KWH that gets mentioned over and over in articles like these.

I just looked at my Municipality bill and the lowest tier pricing is R2.08 per KWH and the highest tier I hit is R2.88 per KWH. This is after reducing power consumption drastically, I know the tiers above peak at around R4-R5 per KWH if you hit the highest tier.

Not even remotely close to R1.23 per KWH.
 
John Tempus said:
Can we stop the BS.

No consumer in SA is paying R1.23 per KWH. I don't know why this keeps getting used as if consumers pay it.

That might be the rate before municipal fees etc. is added on top of the base fee that the consumer then end up paying that is at least 50% higher than this R1.23 per KWH that gets mentioned over and over in articles like these.

I just looked at my Municipality bill and the lowest tier pricing is R2.08 per KWH and the highest tier I hit is R2.88 per KWH. This is after reducing power consumption drastically, I know the tiers above peak at around R4-R5 per KWH if you hit the highest tier.

Not even remotely close to R1.23 per KWH.
Click to expand...
I was going to say this R1. 23 is lower than middle class households. I suspect it includes all users including the significant number of subsidised users/townships .

In fact it probably is even lower if you account for the debt write off at nonpaying municipalities... R0/kwh sounds like it might be the lowest.
 
John Tempus said:
Can we stop the BS.

No consumer in SA is paying R1.23 per KWH. I don't know why this keeps getting used as if consumers pay it.

That might be the rate before municipal fees etc. is added on top of the base fee that the consumer then end up paying that is at least 50% higher than this R1.23 per KWH that gets mentioned over and over in articles like these.

I just looked at my Municipality bill and the lowest tier pricing is R2.08 per KWH and the highest tier I hit is R2.88 per KWH. This is after reducing power consumption drastically, I know the tiers above peak at around R4-R5 per KWH if you hit the highest tier.

Not even remotely close to R1.23 per KWH.
Click to expand...
I think the keyword is average.
 
Also remember that the only reason any other country that may be buying power from ESKOM and who resells it to their population charges less than what they pay for it from ESKOM is because it is a strategic decision by that country to subsidise the electricity so that industry and residential customers have inexpensive electricity.

Botswana pretty much buys all the power that they need from SA and they have low tariffs, note these are cost to end customer rates (multiply the Pula price by 1.36 to get the Rand equivalent):

Tariffs | BPC

www.bpc.bw www.bpc.bw
 
TheChamp said:
I think the keyword is average.
Click to expand...

Keyword of average only works if you compare the Average of lowest payers to highest payers.

You will only get to R1.23 per KWH average if you include those who pay nothing in the equation.

That is not any way to calculate an average across the spectrum by including non payers to the calculation.

It is still BS and not based in reality.

You do understand that an average price cannot be lower than the lowest price tier per KWH right ? You do have the basic fundamentals of math covered right ?
 
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mypetcow said:
Also remember that the only reason any other country that may be buying power from ESKOM and who resells it to their population charges less than what they pay for it from ESKOM is because it is a strategic decision by that country to subsidise the electricity so that industry and residential customers have inexpensive electricity.

Botswana pretty much buys all the power that they need from SA and they have low tariffs, note these are cost to end customer rates (multiply the Pula price by 1.36 to get the Rand equivalent):

Tariffs | BPC

www.bpc.bw www.bpc.bw
Click to expand...

Not really.

Eskom sells to neighbors at prices lower than they charge local South Africans simply because South Africans right now is subsidizing the power prices of these countries.

Its a complete circlejerk scam and only South Africans is being penalized by the Eskom disaster.
 
John Tempus said:
Keyword of average only works if you compare the Average of lowest payers to highest payers.

You will only get to R1.23 per KWH average if you include those who pay nothing in the equation.

That is not any way to calculate an average across the spectrum by including non payers to the calculation.

It is still BS and not based in reality.

You do understand that an average price cannot be lower than the lowest price tier per KWH right ? You do have the basic fundamentals of math covered right ?
Click to expand...
I get the feeling that you are too angry for some reason, that's why you cannot think straight. Have you ever paused to ask yourself how the average unit price used in the article was determined? Applying your own formula is very useless.

I am sure it has absolutely nothing to do with non payers, I don't know in what world would you use the number of non payers to determine the average price of electricity.
 
John Tempus said:
Can we stop the BS.

No consumer in SA is paying R1.23 per KWH. I don't know why this keeps getting used as if consumers pay it.

That might be the rate before municipal fees etc. is added on top of the base fee that the consumer then end up paying that is at least 50% higher than this R1.23 per KWH that gets mentioned over and over in articles like these.

I just looked at my Municipality bill and the lowest tier pricing is R2.08 per KWH and the highest tier I hit is R2.88 per KWH. This is after reducing power consumption drastically, I know the tiers above peak at around R4-R5 per KWH if you hit the highest tier.

Not even remotely close to R1.23 per KWH.
Click to expand...
1638900630512.png
FTFY

Really R1.23 - who pays that?
My average price for the last few months was R2.32/kWh

1638900880435.png
 
John Tempus said:
Not really.

Eskom sells to neighbors at prices lower than they charge local South Africans simply because South Africans right now is subsidizing the power prices of these countries.

Its a complete circlejerk scam and only South Africans is being penalized by the Eskom disaster.
Click to expand...
Not true.

Eskom sells electricity at an average of R0.77/kWh to international customers [1, page 138].

That’s the same or slightly more expensive than their off-peak mega flex tariff that mines use [2, page 19].

Saying that South Africa is subsidizing the international customers is disingenuous of you. The distribution of who actually uses the lion’s share of electricity generated is South Africa not any neighboring countries [1, page 138].

South Africa: 178,355 GWh (93%)
International: 13,497 GWh (7%)
Total: 191,852 GWh

[1] https://www.eskom.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2021IntegratedReport.pdf
[2] https://www.eskom.co.za/distribution/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Tariff-book-with-links.pdf
 
Such bullshyte :ROFL: Went from struggling to pay 3-4k a month with constant load shedding and transformers exploding to £60 odd a month with it on 24/7 ... pull the other one eksdom
 
mypetcow said:
Not true.

Eskom sells electricity at an average of R0.77/kWh to international customers [1, page 138].

That’s the same or slightly more expensive than their off-peak mega flex tariff that mines use [2, page 19].

Saying that South Africa is subsidizing the international customers is disingenuous of you.
Click to expand...

Ummm ... I don't think so.

Eskom keeps saying that they are not charging cost reflective tariffs. Currently the average tariff is R1.34/kWh which is insufficient to cover costs.

Eskom evidently needs to charge R1.51/kWh to cover costs so how can Eskom only be charging neighbouring countries R0.77/kWh which is way below cost? That means we are subsiding the neighbouring countries.
 
TheChamp said:
I get the feeling that you are too angry for some reason, that's why you cannot think straight. Have you ever paused to ask yourself how the average unit price used in the article was determined? Applying your own formula is very useless.

I am sure it has absolutely nothing to do with non payers, I don't know in what world would you use the number of non payers to determine the average price of electricity.
Click to expand...

Average unit price in the article ignores the municipality adjustments which at the end affects the actual end consumer pricing.

The average price in the article is the COST price directly from Eskom, no actual consumer pays it and that is my point that the pricing in the article is a blatant lie.

Is it really so hard for you to understand any of these concepts ? We are being lied to in order to make Eskom pricing more competitive compared to other lower priced countries.

The saddest part of this is that the prices being compared to Eskom is what those actual end consumers pay per KWH.

I tried to get you to understand that according to your logic that the pricing quoted is the average it somehow can average out pricing below the ACTUAL lowest tier pricing available in SA to end consumers. Still , even after I explained to you that the lowest tier pricing CANNOT be higher than the proposed AVG pricing, you still do not grasp this concept. This is why I stated that the only way the AVG pricing can be lower than the actual lowest tier pricing is if we include KWH usage of non payers into the equation. Even at this point you still do not grasp the concept or logic to derive a AVG pricing that is lower than the ACTUAL lowest pricing tier.
 
mypetcow said:
Not true.

Eskom sells electricity at an average of R0.77/kWh to international customers [1, page 138].

That’s the same or slightly more expensive than their off-peak mega flex tariff that mines use [2, page 19].

Saying that South Africa is subsidizing the international customers is disingenuous of you. The distribution of who actually uses the lion’s share of electricity generated is South Africa not any neighboring countries [1, page 138].

South Africa: 178,355 GWh (93%)
International: 13,497 GWh (7%)
Total: 191,852 GWh

[1] https://www.eskom.co.za/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/2021IntegratedReport.pdf
[2] https://www.eskom.co.za/distribution/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/Tariff-book-with-links.pdf
Click to expand...

LOL great you made my point for me, thanks.

In SA end consumers pay at ~R2.08 per KWH at lowest tier. You just pointed out that Eskom is selling to international customers at 0.77 per KWH , so even in some imaginary world if we go by the SA average price suggested in this article of R1.23 per KWH you effectively showed that Eskom is over charging SA consumers and SA consumers subsidize international tariffs.

Pretty hilarious that you say I am lying and then you outright shows the numbers to make my point true.

It doesn't MATTER who is using the majority of KWH, the fact that international clients use less KWH and pay less per KWH is even more disgusting and means we are subsidizing them even more. In a normal functioning company the consumer using more KWH would be given lower per KWH cost yet per your example, 7% of electricity is used by international consumers and they pay at least 50% per KWH less than South African consumers.

In what world is any of this logical to you ? SA consumers factually getting shafted while cheaper costs get off loaded to international consumers.

The further electricity have to travel from the source also introduces massive loss of distribution so even the 7% of electricity used by international consumers would equate closer to 10% due to 3% (to simplify the math) long distance distribution loss. So if you calculate the loss in usable electricity due to long distance distribution then these international consumers actually pay even less than the pricing Eskom is charging them.

If you think for a second that this is at all proper well I wont be able to convince you otherwise.
 
John Tempus said:
Can we stop the BS.

No consumer in SA is paying R1.23 per KWH. I don't know why this keeps getting used as if consumers pay it.

That might be the rate before municipal fees etc. is added on top of the base fee that the consumer then end up paying that is at least 50% higher than this R1.23 per KWH that gets mentioned over and over in articles like these.

I just looked at my Municipality bill and the lowest tier pricing is R2.08 per KWH and the highest tier I hit is R2.88 per KWH. This is after reducing power consumption drastically, I know the tiers above peak at around R4-R5 per KWH if you hit the highest tier.

Not even remotely close to R1.23 per KWH.
Click to expand...
Another anc/eskom apologist piece with its defender(s) in the flank?
 
John Tempus said:
Can we stop the BS.

No consumer in SA is paying R1.23 per KWH. I don't know why this keeps getting used as if consumers pay it.
Click to expand...
I don't want to be that guy, but in Kouga where my parents live, they paid R1.32 up to 350KW last year (Now R1.44 - 2022).

In Richardsbay one of my friends pay R1.18 per unit for 2022 rates. The area buys so much power due to industrialization that the residents also get the cheaper bulk price.

I pay R2.77 on the highest tier atm in COT, but there are places that still sell cheap electricity outside Gauteng...
 
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