Elon Musk slams Apple after company pauses Twitter advertising

[noxibox]

I could agree with that. But then again how does Sony, Nintendo etc handle in-app purchases?

I think it is the ubiquity of mobile devices that is particularly working against Apple here. That's a difference that could be a reason the consoles might potentially fly under the radar even if they were forcing users to buy exclusively through their stores and having locked down purchases. However Apple forcing the hand of legislators may end up having consequences for all those platforms.

In the end it is none of Apple's business what applications people install on hardware they bought. The security claim is somewhat true, but it is not their business if an owner chooses to take that risk. They could easily implement exactly what they have on MacOS, which is that by default the system only allows signed applications and users have to explicitly turn it off. If Apple doesn't like not having control over what gets installed, then they're free to exit the mobile device business. No-one is forcing them to make these products and the huge profits that go with them.

 

[Sapphiron]

Far more than that

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597291218714906626

What were the search terms? Child porn and human trafficking related?

 

[cerebus]

I think it is the ubiquity of mobile devices that is particularly working against Apple here. That's a difference that could be a reason the consoles might potentially fly under the radar even if they were forcing users to buy exclusively through their stores and having locked down purchases. However Apple forcing the hand of legislators may end up having consequences for all those platforms.

In the end it is none of Apple's business what applications people install on hardware they bought. The security claim is somewhat true, but it is not their business if an owner chooses to take that risk. They could easily implement exactly what they have on MacOS, which is that by default the system only allows signed applications and users have to explicitly turn it off. If Apple doesn't like not having control over what gets installed, then they're free to exit the mobile device business. No-one is forcing them to make these products and the huge profits that go with them.

But that argument basically comes down to punishing Apple for being successful, if they aren't following a fundamentally cdifferent payment model from the rest of the industry.

 

[Kosmik]

Then Sony, Nintendo and MS also have monopolies on their respective console platform stores. I cannot buy God of War on the XB store can I? Google does the same thing as Apple, the difference being there are alternative store fronts available on Android, and it terms of legislation it would seem Apple is going to have to allow it sooner or later.

No, you are confusing the issue. One is about a software purchase, ie your God of War being a platform exclusive by that publisher. The other is about in app purchases, ie: allowing in game transactions to be done via other means than the store IAP, to the extent of denying interactions on OTHER frontends NOT part of the store.

 

[prod]

No, you are confusing the issue. One is about a software purchase, ie your God of War being a platform exclusive by that publisher. The other is about in app purchases, ie: allowing in game transactions to be done via other means than the store IAP, to the extent of denying interactions on OTHER frontends NOT part of the store.

I was specifically replying to the statement that they are a monopoly based on the fact that they decide which apps are on their app store, nothing to do with IAP. Consoles work much the same way as it’s pretty much a closed system

 

[Kosmik]

Just to clarify, this is my viewpoint and honestly what I believe the stores should be doing.

1. The store distributes the application and that requires hosting and bandwidth, a model needs to exist to compensate them for that ( whether developer fees etc etc )
2. If a app is SOLD on the store, they can insist on only their monetary platform being used, thats any vendors right.
3. A developer should be allowed to leverage IAP because it simplifies thier lives by having the store, acting as a financial institution, the management and security of payment transactions. They can charge fees etc for that same as any finance provider chargers ( online creditcards, masterpass etc etc ). The one argument is that their fees are well above market norms ( 3-5% ) vs Apples ( 15% - 30% ). However, it is their platform and they have the right to set the fees.
4. What is infringing on the developer and consumers rights , is the right to purchase items WITHIN the app, through other means. Thats the kicker with IAP and one I think is unfair to both consumer and developer. FYI, Google has a similar policy which only really started kicking in once Apple got heavy handed in theirs.

 

[greg0205]

You should try reading the post I was responding to. However, on the advertising, yes Apple are pulling it because they think Musk is going to threaten the SJW that old Twitter built for "diversity".

More than that, and this applies to their App Store too... the 1st Amendment which 'mUh FrEe SpEeCh' folks cry about is specific to the US.

Apple deal with regulators around the world who frankly don't give a fsck about the US and their 1st Amendment... They care about their own territories and laws.

Hosting an app in your store that allows hate speech in Europe has way, way different consequences for folks like Apple and Google than it does in the US.

Plenty folks ignore that 'cos it doesn't suit their agenda in conversations like this.

 

[RiaX]

Or perhaps Lemon.

But everyone loves banana

 

[R13...]

I think it's not so much about that as Twitter becoming dangerously unmoderated. There's stuff on there now that violates Apple's TOS in pretty clear terms. White supremacists are getting back in and COVID deniers are no longer being fact-checked.

But that might still not be enough to kick them out of the app store. There's no proof that Apple has talked about kicking them off, only Elon's claims to back up his complaints about advertising spend.

Apple pulling ads is a big deal for Twitter btw. They were more than 4% of their revenue last quarter.

They would also have to remove FB. Insta, Snapchat, etc if they want to enforce those TOS fairly. And there are both white and black supremacists on those platform, why the singling out of white supremacists?

 

[R13...]

More than that, and this applies to their App Store too... the 1st Amendment which 'mUh FrEe SpEeCh' folks cry about is specific to the US.

Apple deal with regulators around the world who frankly don't give a fsck about the US and their 1st Amendment... They care about their own territories and laws.

Hosting an app in your store that allows hate speech in Europe has way, way different consequences for folks like Apple and Google than it does in the US.

Plenty folks ignore that 'cos it doesn't suit their agenda in conversations like this.

Again, the other social media platforms host all that hate speech as well. Why be selective?

 

[Jean Claude Vaaldamme]

Elon did not buy Twitter to have free speech or Trump back. Taking on Apple for your first strike is a bit risky. Almost like Putin trying to take Kiev on the first day.

 

[Dolby]

Elon did not buy Twitter to have free speech or Trump back. Taking on Apple for your first strike is a bit risky. Almost like Putin trying to take Kiev on the first day.

But it could start a movement .

 

[Dolby]

Elon did not buy Twitter to have free speech or Trump back. Taking on Apple for your first strike is a bit risky. Almost like Putin trying to take Kiev on the first day.

Here we go :

Spotify, Epic Games get ally in Musk in fight against Apple fees

Elon Musk's declaration of war on Apple in a series of tweets on Monday gives Spotify and Fortnite maker Epic Games a powerful ally in taking the tech giant to task over its 30% App Store fees.

www.reuters.com

I don't think Facebook like Apple much either?
Imagine no Twitter, Spotify, Epic, Whatsapp, Facebook or Instagram?
Imagine others follow ? Telegram aren't happy with them either?
Don't you need an app to setup Starlink too ? And a Tesla app?

Gosh .... Twitter, Spotify, Epic, Whatsapp, Telegram, Facebook , Instagram, Starlink, Tesla ...

 

[cerebus]

They would also have to remove FB. Insta, Snapchat, etc if they want to enforce those TOS fairly. And there are both white and black supremacists on those platform, why the singling out of white supremacists?

First let's just keep in mind that so far it's only Elon Musk who claimed without evidence that Apple threatened to remove them. Musk lies all the time so I'm not sure why we should take him at his word on this.

But the difference between post-Musk Twitter and other networks is that he's effectively stopped trying to moderate hate speech at all.

Here’s Proof Hate Speech Is More Viral on Elon Musk’s Twitter

Researchers monitoring a “firehose” of public tweets found signs of increasing toxicity—before Elon Musk reversed bans on Trump and other divisive figures.

www.wired.com

 

[R13...]

First let's just keep in mind that so far it's only Elon Musk who claimed without evidence that Apple threatened to remove them. Musk lies all the time so I'm not sure why we should take him at his word on this.

But the difference between post-Musk Twitter and other networks is that he's effectively stopped trying to moderate hate speech at all.

Here’s Proof Hate Speech Is More Viral on Elon Musk’s Twitter

Researchers monitoring a “firehose” of public tweets found signs of increasing toxicity—before Elon Musk reversed bans on Trump and other divisive figures.

www.wired.com

I have always referred to be threats to remove as just rumours. Musk may well be lying and trying to put some sort of public and congress pressure on Apple for his own ends.

The point about moderation though is that it gives a pass to a lot of black supremacy and has an unfair bias against right wingers. FB for example will not remove content where people bait domestic pets using pythons, tigers, etc to make videos for views. That's apparently not against their community rules. Yet I call someone stupid with a tribal reference and I'm insta banned. It's idiotic.

 

[greg0205]

Again, the other social media platforms host all that hate speech as well. Why be selective?

The DSA was only enacted in April, give ‘em a minute and every social media network will have their time in the barrel… problem for Elon is he’s making unilateral decisions that conflict with the DSA, and he’s doing it publicly and loudly, and that’s bound to attract their immediate attention.

 

[cerebus]

The point about moderation though is that it gives a pass to a lot of black supremacy and has an unfair bias against right wingers. FB for example will not remove content where people bait domestic pets using pythons, tigers, etc to make videos for views. That's apparently not against their community rules. Yet I call someone stupid with a tribal reference and I'm insta banned. It's idiotic.

Can you give an example where they gave a pass for black supremacy vs white supremacy?

 

[BBSA]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597935296154591232

 

[Itsa Trap]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1597935296154591232

Problem is how was it sold to Apple by the Chinese government?

First thing is most like a "think of the children" argument. They might even have had legit examples of it being used that way.

Then, seriously, stopping a peer to peer sharing function is not the same thing as giving the government a back door into the device.

 

[Itsa Trap]

And freedom of association or the free market for that matter. Apple can choose whom they associated with and where they place their ads or is Elon backtracking on his "Freedom" stance?

And if they want to enforce certain standards on their platform and the apps that reside there, it's their right. On top of that, he is being completely and utterly false when he goes on about the "secret" 30% "tax" from apple on apps and transactions. Everyone knows about it. Nothing new there. And they are not the only ones levelling those kinds of percentages. Steam anyone?