Elon Musk's transgender daughter seeks name change, doesn't wish to be related 'in any way, shape or form'

ShaunSA

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It's more the clear advantage those people have after puberty as a male. It's a fairness in the sport thing, not a "you don't have a right to exist" thing.

In fact the points of contention I've seen around transgender folks have been centred around these spaces that were traditionally biologically separated and the transition of children. Outside of a handful of fringe whackjobs I've not seen many people make an argument that trans people don't have a right to exist or something. The conversation is about how we as a society handle them, not whether or not they deserve to even be here. The right to be yourself is generally respected in those societies.

Not so for other places like Africa, the Middle East and much of Asia though. There you're lucky if you don't get executed... but lets all moan about how backwards the western world is.

Ah a whataboutism rears its head :whistling:
 

porchrat

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Ah a whataboutism rears its head :whistling:
Claims of how bad things are in a specific part of the world inherently need to include relative treatment in other areas of the world.

When you compare the western world to the rest of the planet they're light years ahead. People should take a moment to congratulate those societies on that.

They can go even further, but they're far from the hell-holes people make them out to be. They're by far the best places on the planet to live if you're trans.
 

surface

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I've not seen many people make an argument that women don't have a right to vote or something. The conversation is about how we as a society handle them, not whether or not they deserve to even be here. The right to vote is generally respected in those societies.

Not so for other places like Africa, the Middle East and much of Asia though. There you're lucky if you don't get executed... but lets all moan about how backwards the NZ is.
FTFY.

Conversation in the world prior to NZ affording women with voting rights in 1893.
 

ForceFate

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It's more the clear advantage those people have after puberty as a male. It's a fairness in the sport thing, not a "you don't have a right to exist" thing.

In fact the points of contention I've seen around transgender folks have been centred around these spaces that were traditionally biologically separated and the transition of children. Outside of a handful of fringe whackjobs I've not seen many people make an argument that trans people don't have a right to exist or something. The conversation is about how we as a society handle them, not whether or not they deserve to even be here. The right to be yourself is generally respected in those societies.

Not so for other places like Africa, the Middle East and much of Asia though. There you're lucky if you don't get executed... but lets all moan about how backwards the western world is.
Sizeable portion of the populace would probably get them lynched if it wasn't of the progressive laws around the topic. In Africa for example, it's largely the ultra religious countries (stats support this) that have issues with LGBTQ+.
 

2021

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And that equates to forcing people how? Apart from rainbow colours on my work lock screen(only colours, no messaging) the whole thing has passed me by with barely a murmur. If you want to see it you can, if you want to change the channel when it comes on you can. If you don't like it on TV read a book, where is it forced on anyone?

Well, that's a whole discussion on it's own. Many different ideologies are "forced" on you via content and media these days.

And if you say it enough times, in enough places you can effectively pull the "Four legs good, two legs better."
 

The Darkness

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why can't people just keep their personal status, feelings, opinions and information to themselves. nobody cares about musks daughters gender, seriously, who actually cares? keep it to yourself. this is such a waste of time
 

porchrat

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Sizeable portion of the populace would probably get them lynched if it wasn't of the progressive laws around the topic. In Africa for example, it's largely the ultra religious countries (stats support this) that have issues with LGBTQ+.
Africa's a backwards hell-hole when it comes to human rights. Transgender folks in Africa have real issues to complain about. Unfortunately a culture of collectivism, traditional beliefs and a general lack of education tends to breed a lack of respect for individuality.

I'd argue that maybe in the USA there's some portion of the populace that would want to lynch transgender folks. They're nowhere near the majority though. If it's over 10% I'd be amazed. In Europe I'd be amazed if it's over 1-2%.

This massive anti-trans movement people in the west keep talking about doesn't exist. These people have earned their recognition in those western societies after decades of struggle. Now that they're pretty much accepted, with all the same rights and such, this newer generation feel they need to create a boogeymen to fight. It's like the EFF and their fight for "economic freedom", whatever the hell that is.
 

ForceFate

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Africa's a backwards hell-hole when it comes to human rights. Transgender folks in Africa have real issues to complain about. Unfortunately a culture of collectivism, traditional beliefs and a general lack of education tends to breed a lack of respect for individuality.
Interestingly, it's mostly the educated religious bigots (not all of them) that have issues.
I'd argue that maybe in the USA there's some portion of the populace that would want to lynch transgender folks. They're nowhere near the majority though. If it's over 10% I'd be amazed. In Europe I'd be amazed if it's over 1-2%.

This massive anti-trans movement people in the west keep talking about doesn't exist. These people have earned their recognition in those western societies after decades of struggle. Now that they're pretty much accepted, with all the same rights and such, this newer generation feel they need to create a boogeymen to fight. It's like the EFF and their fight for "economic freedom", whatever the hell that is.
 

porchrat

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Interestingly, it's mostly the educated religious bigots (not all of them) that have issues.
I'd say it depends on what one means by educated.

Going to bible college doesn't really count for me for example.

I'd argue the average religious bigot wanting to flat out kill trans people in the USA is less educated. Maybe by African standards they're well educated but not by western standards.
 

ponder

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why can't people just keep their personal status, feelings, opinions and information to themselves. nobody cares about musks daughters gender, seriously, who actually cares? keep it to yourself. this is such a waste of time

In this case it wasn't musk's spawn standing on a soapbox in a public square but the media running with court documents filed and everybody is just piling on.
 

surface

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why can't people just keep their personal status, feelings, opinions and information to themselves. nobody cares about musks daughters gender, seriously, who actually cares? keep it to yourself. this is such a waste of time
Even the so called backward Indian railway web site has adjusted to this. Move on with the times for westerners now.

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surface

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why can't people just keep their personal status, feelings, opinions and information to themselves. nobody cares about musks daughters gender, seriously, who actually cares? keep it to yourself. this is such a waste of time
By same token, no one cares about you and your thoughts yet here you are, making thoughts public. You know what I am saying bro ?
 

ForceFate

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I'd say it depends on what one means by educated.

Going to bible college doesn't really count for me for example.

I'd argue the average religious bigot wanting to flat out kill trans people in the USA is less educated. Maybe by African standards they're well educated but not by western standards.
Mugabe had a decent education but his views on homosexuality were repugnant. So was John Magufuli of Tanzania.

In America, a decent number of senior GOP politicians, though educated by western standards, aren't particularly welcoming of the LGBTQ+ community.
 

porchrat

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Mugabe had a decent education but his views on homosexuality were repugnant. So was John Magufuli of Tanzania.

In America, a decent number of senior GOP politicians, though educated by western standards, aren't particularly welcoming of the LGBTQ+ community.
In America I don't trust that any politician actually believes personally in the points they run for office on. They're aware their political base believe these things, so they claim to. They seem to me to be rather hollow people.

As to Mugabe and Magufuli as I said, Africa. Cultural beliefs run deep here and they're on average pretty backward when it comes to personal liberty. There's also this weird collectivism mentality that's pretty common in Africa that I honestly just don't understand.
 
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