Elon Musk's transgender daughter seeks name change, doesn't wish to be related 'in any way, shape or form'

MrGyre

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porchrat said:
It's more the clear advantage those people have after puberty as a male. It's a fairness in the sport thing, not a "you don't have a right to exist" thing.

In fact the points of contention I've seen around transgender folks have been centred around these spaces that were traditionally biologically separated and the transition of children. Outside of a handful of fringe whackjobs I've not seen many people make an argument that trans people don't have a right to exist or something. The conversation is about how we as a society handle them, not whether or not they deserve to even be here. The right to be yourself is generally respected in those societies.

Not so for other places like Africa, the Middle East and much of Asia though. There you're lucky if you don't get executed... but lets all moan about how backwards the western world is.
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An easy exercise is to ask conservatives on the forum where they think is an acceptable place for trans people to be. So far they're not allowed in change rooms, bathrooms, Instagram, movies, school classrooms or in government, judging from threads :p
 
ShaunSA

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MrGyre said:
An easy exercise is to ask conservatives on the forum where they think is an acceptable place for trans people to be. So far they're not allowed in change rooms, bathrooms, Instagram, movies, school classrooms or in government, judging from threads :p
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You forgot to add college swimming pools

And cycling events
 
porchrat

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MrGyre said:
An easy exercise is to ask conservatives on the forum where they think is an acceptable place for trans people to be. So far they're not allowed in change rooms, bathrooms, Instagram, movies, school classrooms or in government, judging from threads :p
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There's always going to be some extreme minority that doesn't believe trans folks belong in our society. I don't believe they represent anything close to the majority view in the West.

I get the change room and potentially bathroom argument. It's the idea that the area is historically biologically separated and biology hasn't really changed. I can understand that people can be uncomfortable with nudity with the opposite sex especially when you're the physically weaker sex. There's also a vulnerability argument (rape in bathrooms happens). Not sure what the answer to this issue is. The rest seems like there's no justification for it.
 
MrGyre

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porchrat said:
There's always going to be some extreme minority that doesn't believe trans folks belong in our society. I don't believe they represent anything close to the majority view in the West.

I get the change room and potentially bathroom argument. It's the idea that the area is historically biologically separated and biology hasn't really changed. I can understand that people can be uncomfortable with nudity with the opposite sex especially when you're the physically weaker sex. There's also a vulnerability argument (rape in bathrooms happens). Not sure what the answer to this issue is. The rest seems like there's no justification for it.
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I completely agree with you, it just becomes bizarre when the anger that comes from those threads crosses over into threads like this where nobody's rights are being infringed on(like their personal lives or social media accounts).
 
porchrat

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MrGyre said:
I completely agree with you, it just becomes bizarre when the anger that comes from those threads crosses over into threads like this where nobody's rights are being infringed on(like their personal lives or social media accounts).
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Oh for sure. If Musk's kid wants to change gender it's a personal choice. As long as they're old enough and mature enough to make that choice it's nobody else's business.

All this "you go Musk disinherit this weirdo" and whatnot is not on.
 
rambo919

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MrGyre said:
An easy exercise is to ask conservatives on the forum where they think is an acceptable place for trans people to be. So far they're not allowed in change rooms, bathrooms, Instagram, movies, school classrooms or in government, judging from threads :p
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Why make it complicated? Balls and dick goes here, vagina goes there.

Koek to the left, wors to the right.
 
rambo919

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MrGyre said:
Where does it go in Musk's daughter's case? This is them being themself in their own privacy.
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He can be whatever else he is in his own privacy.... public areas are not private.... it's literally in the name of public toilet.
 
Nerfherder

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rambo919 said:
Why make it complicated? Balls and dick goes here, vagina goes there.

Koek to the left, wors to the right.
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What about people who have both ? Perhaps its less important what's in your pants ?

Its actually really inconvenient that toilets are not unisex. I'm often alone with my kids and then one of us need to go potty... do I take my daughter to the mens side with all the dongs hanging out or drag my son into the womans side ?

@porchrat I don't get the argument around bathrooms and rapes either... there is nothing stopping a man from going inside a womans toilet and raping everyone. How will it be different if that man has a dress on.

Changerooms are a bit more complicated.... its going to be hard either way. The thing is, why are we so accepting of being naked with people of the same sex ? Its an odd quirk.
There is probably an alternate version of society where we are OK with nudity and this kind of thing is not a problem.
 
porchrat

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Nerfherder said:
What about people who have both ? Perhaps its less important what's in your pants ?

Its actually really inconvenient that toilets are not unisex. I'm often alone with my kids and then one of us need to go potty... do I take my daughter to the mens side with all the dongs hanging out or drag my son into the womans side ?

@porchrat I don't get the argument around bathrooms and rapes either... there is nothing stopping a man from going inside a womans toilet and raping everyone. How will it be different if that man has a dress on.

Changerooms are a bit more complicated.... its going to be hard either way. The thing is, why are we so accepting of being naked with people of the same sex ? Its an odd quirk.
There is probably an alternate version of society where we are OK with nudity and this kind of thing is not a problem.
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It's not socially acceptable for an obvious man to enter a woman's only space like a bathroom without some valid reason to do so. Someone often steps in and does something about it. You've got to need to do something like change your kiddos nappy and the only changing station is in the bathroom, or you're helping your young daughter or something.

It's not even bathrooms specifically that are the potential problem, and it's not even a transgender specific problem. It's any situation in which males and females are together in a secluded space. There's a chance that rape will occur. The easier we make it as a society for those sorts of interactions to happen the less safe the society is going to be overall. It's a balancing act between personal freedoms and a state's obligation to keep its people safe. The fact that it's this balancing act is why I'm saying I can understand both sides of this argument.

I can understand why women would be uncomfortable with someone obviously physically stronger being able to just walk into what was historically a space reserved for them where they're often alone.

We're not all law-abiding citizens unfortunately.
 
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C

Corelli

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Well turn away from the dad who is the richest guy in the world, then worry why he is no longer covering your credit card bills, or why your friends wants to hang out with you.

Personally She would have been the best candidate to take over the family business.
 
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surface said:
It is entirely possible. Recently Harry & Meghan walked away from riches and there is some Japanese princess who married a commoner.
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Not Accurate.

Harry doesnt have any line to the throne, now that William has kids. So it took him from 2nd to about 5th now.

So Meghan thought she could become queen, or run the royal family like a tv show, sadly it will never go down well.

Then they didnt want to do any community work, so they lost the money they were getting for doing well community based work. (You want the tax payers to pay you a salary, even though you refuse to work for them...NO NO NO).

Now they are on the way out. They couldnt run it as a tv show, they couldnt control the royal family and they noticed they are no longer important. Even Prince Andrew can tell you that.

Personally the Royal family is better without them

Kate and William would be the ones to lead it into the next century or close enough. They have style, flair and better yet....good manners.
 
The Darkness

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surface said:
By same token, no one cares about you and your thoughts yet here you are, making thoughts public. You know what I am saying bro ?
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Who says I’m a ‘bro’? Your assumption offends me, and I’m offended. Yet, you don’t care. How dare you.
It is super cool though that you speak for everyone. Does that count for the Uganda collective as well?
 
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