Ematic 4K Ultra HD Android TV Box (AGT419) Feedback

Dolby

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There must be more to it ?

If this was the case, there'd be incompatibilities as every point as very few people have fully matching HDMI versions throughout the chain, and are often combining 1.3 and 1.4 and 2.0 all in the same system.

I also don't think there is such a thing as HDMI 2.0 or 1.4 spec when it comes to cable ... but rather speed/bandwidth 10gbs or 18Gbps
 

Dolby

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I presume a SoC ( next generation/past s905x ) that can handle it better/always plays smooth/never choppy/etc.
I've never had an issue on the S905X with UHD, even with HDR and 60fps.

Weird
 

xbmcfan

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There must be more to it ?

If this was the case, there'd be incompatibilities as every point as very few people have fully matching HDMI versions throughout the chain, and are often combining 1.3 and 1.4 and 2.0 all in the same system.

I also don't think there is such a thing as HDMI 2.0 or 1.4 spec when it comes to cable ... but rather speed/bandwidth 10gbs or 18Gbps
Most Android media players support HDMI 2.0 so that is not a problem.
But 99% of devices ship with an HDMI 1.4 cable(cost to Chinese manufacturers are usually $1-2) which only supports up to 4K@30hz limited to 8-bit color.
Most people don't watch such high bandwidth 4K content so older HDMI 1.4 cables are shipped with nearly all devices to cut costs.
You need an HDMI 2.0 high-speed 18Gbps cable to get 4K@50hz & 4K@60hz and 10/12-bit video playback.
So everyone that isn't using their own HDMI 2.0 cable won't get true 4K@60hz.

Any HDMI cable that costs under R100 is not HDMI 2.0, price is usually between R120-R200.
It must say in the description it's 18Gbps, 4K@60hz, true 4K.
If there is no mention of the speed, it's most likely a fake.
If it says high-speed, premium HDMI cold plated cable and costs R300, it's also not an HDMI 2.0 cable.
This is a correct HDMI 2.0 cable.
https://www.makro.co.za/electronics...d-4k-v2-0-hdmi-cable-/p/000000000000344662_EA

---------------------------------------------------
For HDCP(High-bandwidth Digital Content Protection)

Most devices now use the HDCP 2.2 revision.
The problem is, it's not backwards compatible with HDCP 2.1/2.0/1.4
A lot of old AVR's >5 years, only support the older HDCP 2.1/2.0 revisions.
Then if you try to connect the old AVR to a new 4K tv or media player then you just get a black screen with no signal. Lots of people were furious with Intel that made the HDCP standard changes since they now had to buy a new AVR for everything to work correctly.

HDCP 2.2 is all about protecting 4k content. That means if you want to stick with 1080p for the time being, you don't have to worry about HDCP 2.2. If you do want 4k content, every device in your video chain must have HDCP 2.2. This will be true in the future where content will be HDCP 2.2 encrypted. Non-2.2 encrypted content will not apply.

If using an AVR, it must also support an HDMI 2.0 port, not v1.4 if you plan to watch 4K@50/60hz or 10-bit content.
If only watching 1080p or 4K@24/30hz then you can still use an old AVR with an HDMI 1.4 port and HDMI 1.4 cable.

Hope this can be informative for lots of people.
 
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xbmcfan

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I've never had an issue on the S905X with UHD, even with HDR and 60fps.

Weird
To check if your device plays back true 4K instead of downscaled/tricked 4K people can follow this guide to determine if their device supports true 4K video playback and is not playing 4K content downscaled to 1080p instead.
https://mrmc.tv/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4060

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The only S905X chipset supporting true 4K is the Xiaomi Mi, all the other cheap ones don't support it.
Your device must support auto frame-rate switching otherwise you are using downscaled/tricked 4K for video playback.

All Android media players except the Nvidia Shield run their UI and framebuffer in 1080p since they are too slow to run both in 4K resolution.
So what happens is media players are advertised as 4K.
That means they can play back videos encoded in 4K resolution but video is actually played back at 1080p instead.
With eg. the Xiaomi Mi tv box, it supports auto frame-rate switching in Kodi which allows the video layer to switch to real 4K output while the UI still remains in 1080p.
Even if the Android Display settings are set to 4K@60hz, the UI will still run on a 1080p frame-buffer, there is just clever software tricks used to upscale the UI to work better on a 4K screen, only video playback is in actual 4K resolution but only on the Xaoimi Mi tv box, on other S905x devices video playback is still in 1080p resolution in Kodi with some clever upscaled tricks that make it look like it's 4K.

S905x devices also use frame skipping for 4K@50/60hz content, so about every second about 1-5 lines are skipped since the GPU & VPU is not powerful enough, on newer more powerful S922x devices this is not a problem anymore. Most people won't notice this so it's not a problem to be concerned about.

I also see a lot of S905x devices still being advertised as up to 2Ghz, but in actual fact the maximum they can run at is 1.5Ghz and if there is multiple CPU core load, some cores slow down to 1.2/1.0Ghz.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If someone is using an expensive 4K tv and new AVR then you must
get a device with CoreELEC/LibreELEC support to watch 4K content better.
You will experience true 4K, working HD Audio and 10-bit color using the latest Linux drivers that provide far better video playback than Android can provide.
The only problem will be, you will be limited to 1080p Netflix on S922x and 720p Netflix on S905x devices using the CoreELEC/LibreELEC Netflix addon.
If 4K Netflix is important than most likely your 4K tv already has it built-in or then you should get a new 4K tv with it built-in if it's time for a new tv or buy a cheap FireTV 4K Stick and plug it into a second HDMI port.
It's not worth it to sacrifice video playback quality to get an old device just to get 4K Netflix support(unless you get an Nvidia Shield or can get by with a Xiaomi Mi tv box).
For Android there is Magisk to make your device Google Certified so most streaming apps can work.
Then you can have the best of both worlds.

The test video I linked above, if people can test it in CoreELEC/LibreELEC if their device supports it and then compare playing it in Android, you will see the difference and can't unsee it again. For Xiaomi Mi users it will play correct in Kodi if auto frame-rate switching is turned on so you won't notice a difference, maybe only if using the default video player app.
99% of Google Certified AndroidTV devices don't support CoreELEC/LibreELEC since Google sees it as a security risk to dual-boot.

This is just to inform users, since so many people think they are watching or using 4K resolutions but are actually seeing something completely different without even realising it.
 
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Dolby

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To check if your device plays back true 4K instead of downscaled/tricked 4K people can follow this guide to determine if their device supports true 4K video playback and is not playing 4K content downscaled to 1080p instead

I'm not really sure I agree with that article at all ?

Why would one S905X Netflix Approved box, run proper UHD?
And another S905X Netflix Approved box, not be able to manage?

I have a Samsung QLED UHD (3840 x 2160) supporting true HDR - and everything works.
YouTube, I can go further into the Stats For Nerds and see exactly what profile / resolution etc are running - and I'm getting UHD @ 60fps
Lastly - My TV itself will display the information received through that port

Then lastly, Netflix are going to list this box as supported issue the Electronic Serial Numbers (ESN) to be burnt into the firmware ... unless you're implying that Netflix, YouTube, Samsung, Amlogic somehow got together to fake things?

Perhaps that article is old? But Xiaomi Mi / Mi S / Telkom LIT / Ematic are all S905X boxes that support full UHD resolution at 60fps


1563955163654.png



 
Last edited:

xbmcfan

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Messages
572
I'm not really sure I agree with that article at all ?

Why would one S905X Netflix Approved box, run proper UHD?
And another S905X Netflix Approved box, not be able to manage?

I have a Samsung QLED UHD (3840 x 2160) supporting true HDR - and everything works.
YouTube, I can go further into the Stats For Nerds and see exactly what profile / resolution etc are running - and I'm getting UHD @ 60fps
Lastly - My TV itself will display the information received through that port

Then lastly, Netflix are going to list this box as supported issue the Electronic Serial Numbers (ESN) to be burnt into the firmware ... unless you're implying that Netflix, YouTube, Samsung, Amlogic somehow got together to fake things?

Perhaps that article is old? But Xiaomi Mi / Mi S / Telkom LIT / Ematic are all S905X boxes that support full UHD resolution at 60fps


View attachment 687793



Netflix runs content at 4K@23.976 or 25hz so it's not affected.
The tv can show 4K@60hz(1080p UI upscaled to 4K@60hz) but it's a different matter playing high bit-rate 4K@60hz video since then line skipping or downscaling will occur.
Video is also displayed in a different layer compared to the UI and is not upscaled from 1080p to 4K.
The video layer can handle 4K@23.976,24,25,29.97,30hz correctly and this is enough for 4K Netflix, Youtube to run correctly.
If you use a 120hz panel tv with it's own upscaling cababilities or a Xiaomi Mi, Nvidia Shield then you won't experience downscaling, only line skipping(not displaying all 3840 horizontal lines at once) will occur which isn't noticable to see, the tv will still report 4K@60hz even with line-skipping.
 

Dolby

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The only S905X chipset supporting true 4K is the Xiaomi Mi, all the other cheap ones don't support it

Um.

4K resolution but video is actually played back at 1080p instead

Er.

playback is in actual 4K resolution but only on the Xaoimi Mi tv box, on other S905x devices video playback is still in 1080p resolution in Kodi

Eh?

I also see a lot of S905x devices still being advertised as up to 2Ghz, but in actual fact the maximum they can run at is 1.5Ghz

Here you're right - but the only I've really seen advertising at 2Ghz (and limited to 1.5Ghz) is the Xaoimi

But 99% of devices ship with an HDMI 1.4 cable(cost to Chinese manufacturers are usually $1-2)

Er.

Where did you get this stat from ?
I'm guessing only the Mi has a true HDMI cable ?
 

xbmcfan

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XBMC please define "True 4k". This is where I have lost you. The official specs for 4K and UHD as explained on Wikipedia does not require 4K to be at 60hz.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4K_resolution

This "true 4k" seems to be some snobbish fan-made spec?
4K or UHD means it's 4x HD resolution.
It means displaying 3840 horizontal lines and 2160 vertical lines at the same time on the screen.
In pixels that is 3840x2160=8294400.

UHD doesn't mention any frame-rate.
Frame-rate is how many times in one second the 8294400 pixels can be display.
'Frame rate is the frequency (rate) at which consecutive images called frames appear on a display'.
You get 23.976,24,25,29.97,30,50,59.98,60hz frame-rates then the 8294400 pixels are eg. changed 25 times in one second to create a moving picture(video).

Most movies are shown in 23.976hz, some can also be shown in 24hz.
TV broadcasts in South Africa and Europe are shown in 25 or 50hz.
Eg. the SABC broadcasts in 1080i 50hz, meaning there is interlacing, every second horizontal line is skipped every second and then the next second all the skipped horizontal lines are shown again.
This helps to save bandwidth but make the picture look worse if there is fast moving scenes since you are then basically only seeing 25hz frame-rate but it does work better than just using 25hz directly.

True 4K means a device is capable to display video smoothly in
4K@50hz or 4K@60hz or in 10-bit color 4K@60hz or 4K@50hz

All 4K tv's with HDMI 2.0 ports are True 4K capable.
If your tv only has HDMI 1.4 ports then it's a UHD or 4K tv but not a True 4K tv.

Most media players on the other hand are 4K but not True 4K capable in Android.
If you try to play a true 4K(4K@50hz or 4K@60hz) video on only an UHD device, you will get a no signal or black screen or the display will then play it downscaled at 1080p@50 or 60hz, the same frame-rate but a lower resolution.
Since these videos are high bit-rate most people will think it is still 4K quality and not realise it's only playing in 1080p or at 4K with 57-59 fps instead(if your device was set to 4K@60hz beforehand).
 

SmartKit

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Messages
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4K or UHD means it's 4x HD resolution.
It means displaying 3840 horizontal lines and 2160 vertical lines at the same time on the screen.
In pixels that is 3840x2160=8294400.

UHD doesn't mention any frame-rate.
Frame-rate is how many times in one second the 8294400 pixels can be display.
'Frame rate is the frequency (rate) at which consecutive images called frames appear on a display'.
You get 23.976,24,25,29.97,30,50,59.98,60hz frame-rates then the 8294400 pixels are eg. changed 25 times in one second to create a moving picture(video).

Most movies are shown in 23.976hz, some can also be shown in 24hz.
TV broadcasts in South Africa and Europe are shown in 25 or 50hz.
Eg. the SABC broadcasts in 1080i 50hz, meaning there is interlacing, every second horizontal line is skipped every second and then the next second all the skipped horizontal lines are shown again.
This helps to save bandwidth but make the picture look worse if there is fast moving scenes since you are then basically only seeing 25hz frame-rate but it does work better than just using 25hz directly.

True 4K means a device is capable to display video smoothly in
4K@50hz or 4K@60hz or in 10-bit color 4K@60hz or 4K@50hz

All 4K tv's with HDMI 2.0 ports are True 4K capable.
If your tv only has HDMI 1.4 ports then it's a UHD or 4K tv but not a True 4K tv.

Most media players on the other hand are 4K but not True 4K capable in Android.
If you try to play a true 4K(4K@50hz or 4K@60hz) video on only an UHD device, you will get a no signal or black screen or the display will then play it downscaled at 1080p@50 or 60hz, the same frame-rate but a lower resolution.
Since these videos are high bit-rate most people will think it is still 4K quality and not realise it's only playing in 1080p or at 4K with 57-59 fps instead(if your device was set to 4K@60hz beforehand).
But surely only the Mi Box S and Nvdia Shield are capable of such wizardry?
 

xbmcfan

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Messages
572
Um.



Er.



Eh?



Here you're right - but the only I've really seen advertising at 2Ghz (and limited to 1.5Ghz) is the Xaoimi



Er.

Where did you get this stat from ?
I'm guessing only the Mi has a true HDMI cable ?

Almost half of advertised S905x devices or shops are still showing these devices as 2.0Ghz.
Amlogic faked the results in their bootloader so that the kernel reported 2.0Ghz even if it was only 1.5Ghz capable.
https://www.cnx-software.com/2016/0...e-limited-to-1-5-ghz-not-2-ghz-as-advertised/

Some other test people can do:
Use any cheap S905x media player, set the Display resolution to 1080p@60hz on a 4K tv.
Now play any 4K video in Kodi.
It will still play in 1080p resolution, not 4K.
Do the same with a Xiaomi Mi box with auto frame-rate turned on and the whitelist set in Kodi and the video will play in 4K resolution. You can use the tv remote info button to check the resolution while the video is playing.

I have over 20 Android media players ranging from Beelink, Mecool, MXQ, Alfawise, Khadas, Ugoos etc. and tested all the HDMI cables shipped with them and all were only HDMI 1.4 cables.
Only the last 2 were true 4K capable without video quality loss when I tested video playback in Kodi on Android after using my own HDMI 2.0 cable.

There is also no way a device that costs $25 or $40 will ship with a $10 HDMI 2.0 cable, it would cut though the manufacturer's $5-10 profit margin per device and they would make a loss. Even $100 devices on Gearbest, Banggood also ship with HDMI 1.4 cables. Xiaomi might be an exception.
 

SmartKit

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Messages
8,219
Almost half of advertised S905x devices or shops are still showing these devices as 2.0Ghz.
Amlogic faked the results in their bootloader so that the kernel reported 2.0Ghz even if it was only 1.5Ghz capable.
https://www.cnx-software.com/2016/0...e-limited-to-1-5-ghz-not-2-ghz-as-advertised/

Some other test people can do:
Use any cheap S905x media player, set the Display resolution to 1080p@60hz on a 4K tv.
Now play any 4K video in Kodi.
It will still play in 1080p resolution, not 4K.
Do the same with a Xiaomi Mi box with auto frame-rate turned on and the whitelist set in Kodi and the video will play in 4K resolution. You can use the tv remote info button to check the resolution while the video is playing.

I have over 20 Android media players ranging from Beelink, Mecool, MXQ, Alfawise, Khadas, Ugoos etc. and tested all the HDMI cables shipped with them and all were only HDMI 1.4 cables.
Only the last 2 were true 4K capable without video quality loss when I tested video playback in Kodi on Android after using my own HDMI 2.0 cable.

There is also no way a device that costs $25 or $40 will ship with a $10 HDMI 2.0 cable, it would cut though the manufacturer's $5-10 profit margin per device and they would make a loss. Even $100 devices on Gearbest, Banggood also ship with HDMI 1.4 cables. Xiaomi might be an exception.

Such an incredible piece of machinery would surely only ship with the best-of-the-best.

Edit: you forgot the obligatory Nvidia Shield mention?
 

SeRpEnT

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Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
5,924
4K or UHD means it's 4x HD resolution.
It means displaying 3840 horizontal lines and 2160 vertical lines at the same time on the screen.
In pixels that is 3840x2160=8294400.

UHD doesn't mention any frame-rate.
Frame-rate is how many times in one second the 8294400 pixels can be display.
'Frame rate is the frequency (rate) at which consecutive images called frames appear on a display'.
You get 23.976,24,25,29.97,30,50,59.98,60hz frame-rates then the 8294400 pixels are eg. changed 25 times in one second to create a moving picture(video).

Most movies are shown in 23.976hz, some can also be shown in 24hz.
TV broadcasts in South Africa and Europe are shown in 25 or 50hz.
Eg. the SABC broadcasts in 1080i 50hz, meaning there is interlacing, every second horizontal line is skipped every second and then the next second all the skipped horizontal lines are shown again.
This helps to save bandwidth but make the picture look worse if there is fast moving scenes since you are then basically only seeing 25hz frame-rate but it does work better than just using 25hz directly.

Old news. Most of us geeks on here know this.

True 4K means a device is capable to display video smoothly in
4K@50hz or 4K@60hz or in 10-bit color 4K@60hz or 4K@50hz

All 4K tv's with HDMI 2.0 ports are True 4K capable.
If your tv only has HDMI 1.4 ports then it's a UHD or 4K tv but not a True 4K tv.

Most media players on the other hand are 4K but not True 4K capable in Android.
If you try to play a true 4K(4K@50hz or 4K@60hz) video on only an UHD device, you will get a no signal or black screen or the display will then play it downscaled at 1080p@50 or 60hz, the same frame-rate but a lower resolution.
Since these videos are high bit-rate most people will think it is still 4K quality and not realise it's only playing in 1080p or at 4K with 57-59 fps instead(if your device was set to 4K@60hz beforehand).

So like I said, "true 4K" is not a standard set by any global organization for 4K or UHD devices to meet. It's something that AV fans might prefer but it's not an official standard. So please don't preach on forums to people that their 4K devices are not good enough based on some fan-made spec.

If you ask me it reminds me a lot of back in the old days of HD when the official minimum spec for HD was 720p or 1080i. Later on when 1080p became more popular and TV set makers wanted to punt these sets they dubbed the terms Full HD for 1080p vs HD-ready for 720p/1080i. Yes off course 1080p was better than 720p/1080i but it was just marketing to dub 1080p as "full hd" which was not really in line with the official HD spec of the time.
 

SmartKit

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Joined
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Messages
8,219
Old news. Most of us geeks on here know this.



So like I said, "true 4K" is not a standard set by any global organization for 4K or UHD devices to meet. It's something that AV fans might prefer but it's not an official standard. So please don't preach on forums to people that their 4K devices are not good enough based on some fan-made spec.

If you ask me it reminds me a lot of back in the old days of HD when the official minimum spec for HD was 720p or 1080i. Later on when 1080p became more popular and TV set makers wanted to punt these sets they dubbed the terms Full HD for 1080p vs HD-ready for 720p/1080i. Yes off course 1080p was better than 720p/1080i but it was just marketing to dub 1080p as "full hd" which was not really in line with the official HD spec of the time.

It's a bit like the warm/cold sound described by same AV fans.

cyLWX3f.gif
 

Dolby

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Joined
Jan 31, 2005
Messages
28,388
sigh xbmcfan.

I'm hoping that many people here reading, will take some of your 'facts' with a pinch of salt ;)
 
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