Emigration a threat to economy, says economist

xrapidx

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What are possibilites of the government stopping people from immigrating? Is that even possible?!
 

Moederloos

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What are possibilites of the government stopping people from immigrating? Is that even possible?!

Sure it is.
Is it easy? Not so much.

HA can of course just "lose" passport applications - and the police can "lose" police clearance.
 

arni1954

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What are possibilites of the government stopping people from immigrating? Is that even possible?!
They can put a penalty for leaving the country which "invested" in you like R1,000,000 a person . This thing happened in the past in some communist countries.
 

diabolus

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What are possibilites of the government stopping people from emmigrating? Is that even possible?!

Corrected. Anyhow, they first need to actually prevent all those Zimmies,Nigerians [entire africa] from flooding INTO SA before they can even remotely consider preventing people from exiting.


In the end, it's the "host" country who "allows" you. It's not like we need a visa/passport to leave, but you do need one to enter...

So as long as countries are still accepting us....[which might become a problem due to passport corruption etc], not much they can do ? If they deny us our passports, then you can probably buy one off the street from the same guy who denied your application anyhow...
 
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Moederloos

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Corrected. Anyhow, they first need to actually prevent all those Zimmies,Nigerians [entire africa] from flooding INTO SA before they can even remotely prevent someone from exiting. In the end, it's the "host" country who "allows" you. It's not like we need a visa to leave, but you do need on to enter.

So as long as countries are still accepting us....[which might become a problem due to passport corruption etc], not much they can do ?

As someone just said - communist countries prevent[ed] people from leaving.
 

diabolus

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As someone just said - communist countries prevent[ed] people from leaving.

Well we're not communist [yet], and you need a functioning [read: working]
government to pull that off. Communist countries usually had a very strong dictatorship going which included keeping up government infrastructure to actually monitor people and resources.

Our government is sitting on their arses allowing everything to degrade. Allowing corruption. They probably don't even freaking know how many people are really leaving. We're all just guessing, there's no stats in all these reports [if anyone noticed] . I'm not even sure Statistics SA is still functioning.

They can't even tell you centrally your traffic fines!
 

stefan9

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What are possibilites of the government stopping people from immigrating? Is that even possible?!

They can't stop people from leaving. They would have to stop going on holiday as well and they can't.

The only way would be if the foreign countries don't want the immigrants any more but that ain't going to happen. Australia,New Zealand and the UK rely on the skilled immigrant workers to continue to grow their economy. They will continue to encourage skilled guys to join them.

They only way they could actually prevent people from leaving is making SA a better place to live but from the evidence of the last 14 years they are incapable of doing that. SA is screwed.
 
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PeterCH

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They can't stop people from leaving. They would have to stop going on holiday as well and they can't.

The only way would be if the foreign countries don't want the immigrants any more but that ain't going to happen. Australia,New Zealand and the UK rely on the skilled immigrant workers to continue to grow their economy. They will continue to encourage skilled guys to join them.

They only way they could actually prevent people from leaving is making SA a better place to live but from the evidence of the last 14 years they are incapable of doing that. SA is screwed.

1. They can confiscate your passport.
2. They can prevent you from taking most of your assets (money) out of the country with you, ie you leave with you baggage only.

Even so you could always go to a foreign mission ask for political asylum. If they are going to implement 1 and/or 2 I would expect that that would be a reasonable possibility. As a political refugee you'd still be without your assets and they'd probably seize your bank accounts, home etc.

They could threaten your family left behind. I don't think things would get so bad but it could happen, it happened in East Germany and it happens in North Korea and Cuba right now.

As for police clearance I doubt political refugees from countries like North Korea need North Korean police clearance. If things got so bad and SAPS refused to issue these things I expect
many countries would not expect them of you.
 
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stefan9

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1. They can confiscate your passport.
2. They can prevent you from taking most of your assets (money) out of the country with you, ie you leave with you baggage only.

Even so you could always go to a foreign mission ask for political asylum. If they are going to implement 1 and/or 2 I would expect that that would be a reasonable possibility. As a political refugee you'd still be without your assets and they'd probably seize your bank accounts, home etc.

They could threaten your family left behind. I don't think things would get so bad but it could happen, it happened in East Germany and it happens in North Korea and Cuba right now.

And they could face heavy sanctions if they did any of those things. Which would in turn mean no trade which would in turn be even worse for them. Which will effect some of their fat cat friend's business's which in effect means they won't go to such measures.
 

PeterCH

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And they could face heavy sanctions if they did any of those things. Which would in turn mean no trade which would in turn be even worse for them. Which will effect some of their fat cat friend's business's which in effect means they won't go to such measures.

I very much doubt that they'd face VERY HEAVY sanctions. After all SA would still be able to deal with Cuba, Russia (no way that those guys are implementing sanctions for human rights abuses :) ) and our greatest allies the People's Republic of China. They'd still have trade with many non-alligned states (African Union, many South American states, Syria, Libya, Iran etc) and even Western sanctions could be very mild indeed. I can already see France not implementing too tough a set of sanctions either. Look at Iraq for example.

To be brutally honest UNLESS the ANC releases hordes of ogres on innocent women and children I very much doubt the world will care enough to implement too heavy a set of sanctions - speaking for the West of course. SA has too many resources plus Anglo/DeBeers etc wouldn't want their assets nationalised either. Big corporations would sell out the little guys.
 
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Moederloos

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1. They can confiscate your passport.
2. They can prevent you from taking most of your assets (money) out of the country with you, ie you leave with you baggage only.

1 is difficult - foreign embassy will help, as said
2? snort! with the state of the rand, debt levels, property flood and reserve bank limits on what you can take, not such a biggy.
:D
 

PeterCH

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1 is difficult - foreign embassy will help, as said
2? snort! with the state of the rand, debt levels, property flood and reserve bank limits on what you can take, not such a biggy.
:D

1. Foreign embassy won't help if you only have SA citizenship.
Although you could seek political assylum, but they don't need to
confiscate passports for that.
2. It can be a biggy if you have substantial assets.
 

Moederloos

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1. Foreign embassy won't help if you only have SA citizenship.
Although you could seek political assylum, but they don't need to
confiscate passports for that.
2. It can be a biggy if you have substantial assets.

Yeah, sorry. I was referring to myself - although I "worded" it badly.
 

stefan9

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Better get out then before they think of closing the borders.:D Only the passport would be a worry , no real assets to worry about.
 

friedpiggy

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There is a way for them to prevent anyone leaving. its called exchange controls. if they make it so you can only take R10k out with you then how many of you would opt to remain if you couldnt get your cash out with you????
 

sand_man

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The Homecoming Revolution says despite reports that South Africans are leaving the country en masse, it's had a 20% increase in enquiries from citizens wanting to return home this year.

Indications from emigration lawyers and moving companies over the past few weeks are that hundreds of people are leaving the country due to pessimism stemming from crime, the power crisis, the economy and the political situation.

Hundreds of people are reportedly packing up and leaving the country following what’s being described as a perfect storm of bad news.

But the Homecoming Revolution's Martine Schaffer says in January alone, the organisation experienced a 20% increase in enquiries from citizens abroad wanting to return home.

Greg Anderson has lived in London for 10 years, but has now decided to move his family back to South Africa.

The Homecoming Revolution says instead of waiting for things to get better in the country, those returning home are doing so because they want to help make things better.
Or the government could try encourage some that have left to return...
 
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