Engineering body calls emergency meeting over CEO’s comments about women

evilstebunny

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#41
Women make up 80% of health care workers—but just 40% of executives

Just throwing this in here for you lot to froth over..

The health care industry is powered by women.

More than 76% of hospital employees—women.

More than 77% of people who work in doctors' offices—women.

More than 88% of home health workers—women.

But the industry's key decision-makers … are typically men.

“It’s an issue,” acknowledges Jennifer Stewart, an Advisory Board managing director who oversees the HR Advancement Center and Nursing Executive Center’s research.
Why is such a large % of health care workers female? And why is it so wrong to point it out?
 
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gamer16

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#42
And you should know better. There is always 1 that has to generalize complete BS like this.

Do you think all women are part of feminist movement?
No I do not, next time I'll be sure to add specific statistics and figures to my post alright?:crylaugh:
 

buka001

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#43
I have been somewhat divided on the point over my career as an engineer.

I know many female engineers. My technical director is a Doctor in engineering and she is female. I see no difference in ability or managing stress or dealing with various difficulties that come with the work between women or men in my workplace.

Over the years I have been leaning far and far more towards the belief that the way the Engineering industry is perceived and the centuries long standing bias has contributed to why women are reluctant to choose engineering.

Now this view is all based on my personal experiences in the civil engineering environment in multiple countries over the past 19 years. I am prepared for some kick back on this.

When I do presentations at schools and Universities or during interviews, the question always comes up about how "rough" is it in the workplace. There is a big perception that because it is male dominated, women are less welcome. There is this perception that women will be expected to "man up" if they want to be able to compete in the workplace.

I have literally heard crass discussions between guys and when the women interjects, they get told, that this is construction and she should get use to it.

I think these perceptions are barriers for some women to enter the field.

Also there is a bias that because women tend to have different instincts and quoting from Mr Pillay's editorial, "prefer to choose care or people orientated careers" that men in general have this perception that women would not prefer to do engineering. In my experience these qualities from women make them excellent engineers. They see problems in a different perspective and 99% of problems in civil engineering are because of communication, so having a people orientated way of looking at life, brings in a different perspective to the problem.

All the qualities that Dr Jordan Peterson define that typifies women, that all the right leaning folk on this website would say makes them less likely to choose engineering, I have found enables women to become really good engineers. Even neuroticism.

I think that the biological differences is becoming an excuse, to justify the disparity.

I believe that the differences do exist, but such differences are not a barrier, but are actually a different set of tools, to do the same type of work.

While I zip up the flame suite some more, I will say that I do agree that there are some roles that women do struggle at. No doubt about that and it does come down to biology (physical biological differences and characteristics such as strength and endurance for example, being a driver). I just think engineering is not one of them.
 

WaxLyrical

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#44
Pillay should've just said Sewrage, Dumptruck and Deep Core mining engineering.

Would've kept the snowflakes quiet and kept his job.
 

Ancalagon

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#45
Women make up 80% of health care workers—but just 40% of executives

Just throwing this in here for you lot to froth about..



Why is such a large % of health care workers female? And why is it so wrong to point it out?
When are they going to start campaigning for more male representation in health care?

Maybe the toxic work culture in health care is putting men off. They should send women for sensitivity training to be more accommodating towards their male colleagues.

/s

Interesting that the majority of the workforce is female but the majority of the executives are still male. I wonder what the reasons for that are?
 

DMNknight

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Oct 17, 2003
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3,141
#46
I have been somewhat divided on the point over my career as an engineer.

I know many female engineers. My technical director is a Doctor in engineering and she is female. I see no difference in ability or managing stress or dealing with various difficulties that come with the work between women or men in my workplace.

Over the years I have been leaning far and far more towards the belief that the way the Engineering industry is perceived and the centuries long standing bias has contributed to why women are reluctant to choose engineering.

Now this view is all based on my personal experiences in the civil engineering environment in multiple countries over the past 19 years. I am prepared for some kick back on this.

When I do presentations at schools and Universities or during interviews, the question always comes up about how "rough" is it in the workplace. There is a big perception that because it is male dominated, women are less welcome. There is this perception that women will be expected to "man up" if they want to be able to compete in the workplace.

I have literally heard crass discussions between guys and when the women interjects, they get told, that this is construction and she should get use to it.

I think these perceptions are barriers for some women to enter the field.

Also there is a bias that because women tend to have different instincts and quoting from Mr Pillay's editorial, "prefer to choose care or people orientated careers" that men in general have this perception that women would not prefer to do engineering. In my experience these qualities from women make them excellent engineers. They see problems in a different perspective and 99% of problems in civil engineering are because of communication, so having a people orientated way of looking at life, brings in a different perspective to the problem.

All the qualities that Dr Jordan Peterson define that typifies women, that all the right leaning folk on this website would say makes them less likely to choose engineering, I have found enables women to become really good engineers. Even neuroticism.

I think that the biological differences is becoming an excuse, to justify the disparity.

I believe that the differences do exist, but such differences are not a barrier, but are actually a different set of tools, to do the same type of work.

While I zip up the flame suite some more, I will say that I do agree that there are some roles that women do struggle at. No doubt about that and it does come down to biology (physical biological differences and characteristics such as strength and endurance for example, being a driver). I just think engineering is not one of them.
You have it mostly spot-on actually. The fundamental premise is this.
No person should be told what profession they are allowed to study for and work in. It's as simple as that.

If you as a person, say that you cannot do something (regardless of "reasons"), you are 100% correct and the responsibility of that choice is 100% yours.
 

konfab

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Joined
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19,650
#47
All the qualities that Dr Jordan Peterson define that typifies women, that all the right leaning folk on this website would say makes them less likely to choose engineering, I have found enables women to become really good engineers. Even neuroticism.
Cross-cultural and cross-species qualities like preferring people to things?

The magnitude and variability of sex differences in vocational interests were examined in the present
meta-analysis for Holland’s (1959, 1997) categories (Realistic, Investigative, Artistic, Social, Enterprising,
and Conventional), Prediger’s (1982) Things–People and Data–Ideas dimensions, and the STEM
(science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) interest areas. Technical manuals for 47 interest
inventories were used, yielding 503,188 respondents. Results showed that men prefer working with
things and women prefer working with people, producing a large effect size (d  0.93) on the
Things–People dimension. Men showed stronger Realistic (d  0.84) and Investigative (d  0.26)
interests, and women showed stronger Artistic (d  0.35), Social (d  0.68), and Conventional (d 
0.33) interests. Sex differences favoring men were also found for more specific measures of engineering
(d  1.11), science (d  0.36), and mathematics (d  0.34) interests. Average effect sizes varied
across interest inventories, ranging from 0.08 to 0.79. The quality of interest inventories, based on
professional reputation, was not differentially related to the magnitude of sex differences. Moderators of
the effect sizes included interest inventory item development strategy, scoring method, theoretical
framework, and sample variables of age and cohort. Application of some item development strategies can
substantially reduce sex differences. The present study suggests that interests may play a critical role in
gendered occupational choices and gender disparity in the STEM fields
https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/47af/4a7e87267aba681fb6971590ec80effce0c3.pdf

It is not a matter of ability but a matter of preference. If you want gender equality you have to force woman to do things they don't want to do.
 

konfab

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Joined
Jun 23, 2008
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19,650
#48
You have it mostly spot-on actually. The fundamental premise is this.
No person should be told what profession they are allowed to study for and work in. It's as simple as that.
.
I quite agree, however that comes with a caveat that you cannot expect a 50/50 distribution for every career choice.

That is not the premise that is being applied here. What is being applied is:
All high paying careers should have a 50/50 male/female distribution, if they don't it must be because of patriarchy.
 

Cius

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Jan 20, 2009
Messages
5,134
#49
The CEO makes a very valid point and more and more hard data is supporting what he says. The people attacking him are so indoctrinated they can't seem to understand factual evidence.

The Northern EU countries have gone further down the path of gender equality (a good thing) than any other area in the world and guess what, women there chose care based jobs more than men and men chose STEM jobs more than women because it is what they enjoy.

There is a difference between equal opportunity and equal outcome. The former is a great idea, the later is idiotic and unfortunately firmly on the agenda of the lefties of this world.
 

konfab

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Messages
19,650
#50
The CEO makes a very valid point and more and more hard data is supporting what he says. The people attacking him are so indoctrinated they can't seem to understand factual evidence.

The Northern EU countries have gone further down the path of gender equality (a good thing) than any other area in the world and guess what, women there chose care based jobs more than men and men chose STEM jobs more than women because it is what they enjoy.

There is a difference between equal opportunity and equal outcome. The former is a great idea, the later is idiotic and unfortunately firmly on the agenda of the lefties of this world.
It is not only idiotic, it is completely totalitarian.
 

Emjay

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Messages
6,632
#54
https://youtu.be/PyajZsQlNe4

This women has received endless harassment online (even from Westerners) because she does not fit into the traditional mold of an engineer, or someone in technology. Maybe you guys should consider that your ideas of what women should be kind of help perpetuate the idea? A woman can be a caregiver and an engineer. We should stop with the identity politics on both sides, as each side is perpetuating this problem.

Even by some admissions here, women are not seen as innovators, leaders or trailblazers in any way. Femininity and those other traits associated with it are viewed as inferior and unwanted in the workplace. Femininity is associated with servitude. That's why I love this picture. She has makeup on and she looks like a woman. Not some weird amalgamation of masculinity and femininity. It shows women can be strong and powerful, but be a woman at the same time.

These views are not (completely) intended, but there are some biases. First and second wave feminism has largely done what it set out to achieve, which is great. Third wave feminism is trying to completely remove the idea of any sexes/genders. You want society to stop with pushing these agendas? How about we try stop pushing women into boxes? Let women embrace their femininity, but also accept that women will not always fit into your preconceived mold.
 
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Slootvreter

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Aug 7, 2008
Messages
27,967
#56
https://youtu.be/PyajZsQlNe4

This women has received endless harassment online (even from Westerners) because she does not fit into the traditional mold of an engineer, or someone in technology. Maybe you guys should consider that your ideas of what women should be kind of help perpetuate the idea? A woman can be a caregiver and an engineer. We should stop with the identity politics on both sides, as each side is perpetuating this problem.

Even by some admissions here, women are not seen as innovators, leaders or trailblazers in any way. Femininity and those other traits associated with it are viewed as inferior and unwanted in the workplace. Femininity is associated with servitude. That's why I love this (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/12/We_Can_Do_It!.jpg/800px-We_Can_Do_It!.jpg) picture (sorry, forums broken, so can't link it properly). She has makeup on and she looks like a woman. Not some weird amalgamation of masculinity and femininity. It shows women can be strong and powerful, but be a woman at the same time.

These views are not (completely) intended, but there are some biases. First and second wave feminism has largely done what it set out to achieve, which is great. Third wave feminism is trying to completely remove the idea of any sexes/genders. You want society to stop with pushing these agendas? How about we try stop pushing women into boxes? Let women embrace their femininity, but also accept that women will not always fit into your preconceived mold.
I don't see too many women on construction sites :( BRING IN THE WIMENZ!
 

buka001

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3,050
#57
Cross-cultural and cross-species qualities like preferring people to things?


https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/47af/4a7e87267aba681fb6971590ec80effce0c3.pdf

It is not a matter of ability but a matter of preference. If you want gender equality you have to force woman to do things they don't want to do.
Yes, preferring people to things is a very good quality for an engineer. All too often engineers enact solutions without balancing the human element to the solution. Having that value adds an extra dimension to the solution that is often overlooked.

I am not saying women need to be forced into it, I am saying certain biases and perceptions about the industry need to be removed because they exist on a false platform. Removing those perceptions may open the field to more women.
 
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#60
(My own family has a microbiologist and a civil engineer who quite incidentally happen to be female. They didn't need special affirmative programs to choose their professions, being more than competent and capable enough to make their way in these professions without being mollycoddled as females.)
If people here taught me anything is that every woman and person of colour is an affirmative action appointment. That your family members are competent is just a plus.
 
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