Eskom and Sasol must abide by emission limits, even if costs billions

Lupus

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Read Lazard LCOE Inc Storage.

Nuclear is too expensive and takes 10+ years to build.

Nuclear had Low deaths, but expensive and no solution for spent fuel.

I'm OK with nuclear if done on IPP model. No taxpayer funding, no SOE. IPP builds, maintains, manages, deals with spent fuel, etc, consumer then buys cheapest kWh from IPP - same rules as Solar+Storage or Wind+Storage
It's actually not that expensive over the long run, yes renewables are cheap initially but they need to be replaced, they need to be supplemented which all cost.
IPP nuclear would be great, pity the modular reactors need more development, small nukes to power areas.
 

system32

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It's actually not that expensive over the long run, yes renewables are cheap initially but they need to be replaced, they need to be supplemented which all cost.
IPP nuclear would be great, pity the modular reactors need more development, small nukes to power areas.
The LCOE model is supposed to "Levelize" the cost for comparison purposes, factoring in lifespan and fuel, maintenance, etc.

What's missing in LCOE is the hidden cost of pollution / environmental cost from Coal/Oil/Gas. That is a hidden subsidy that needs to be added to coal.
 

HavocXphere

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SA exports the good coal at much higher prices than the coal sold to Eskom.
Exactly.

That's something SA gov could fix with some red tape for once. Simply force the companies via law. They'll cry foul but what of it?

South Africans are dying because of this. Estimates generally put SA air pollution deaths at 20k+ a year.

Same for Sasol...they also need a swift kick in the balls.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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Actually makes the case for nuclear, as that's killed even less then wind and solar. Remember wind and solar don't run all the time and peaks are early morning and early evening when there is no sun.
Also batteries will cost a fortune.
We very almost lost 1/7th of the land on earth for 1000s of years because of Chernobyl. This is why so many countries pulled out of nuclear.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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Here is the thing about pollution - its a global problem. The world green police is getting stronger and have already warned Eskom that they will be closed down.
 

Lupus

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We very almost lost 1/7th of the land on earth for 1000s of years because of Chernobyl. This is why so many countries pulled out of nuclear.
Yeah 35 years ago and tech has changed a lot since then. Also almost lost isn't lost, still less people have died or environmental losses due to nuclear,compared to coal.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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Yeah 35 years ago and tech has changed a lot since then. Also almost lost isn't lost, still less people have died or environmental losses due to nuclear,compared to coal.
But the fact that systems fail is still with us today. Not comparing nuclear to coal both are bad and should have never been discovered, the world would have been a better place.
 

ConfusedR

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They should already include the budget for the commission of inquiry.
ANC cadres are licking their lips for this.
 

cr@zydude

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SA exports the good coal at much higher prices than the coal sold to Eskom.

Exactly.

That's something SA gov could fix with some red tape for once. Simply force the companies via law. They'll cry foul but what of it?

South Africans are dying because of this. Estimates generally put SA air pollution deaths at 20k+ a year.

Same for Sasol...they also need a swift kick in the balls.

The miners could stop mining coal if govt made them sell the high grade coal cheaply domestically.

Anglo, South32, Glencore and ARM all mine commodities other than coal in SA and could exit coal.

Do you think that govt should force Sibanye, Gold Fields, etc to sell them gold cheaply?
 

system32

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Yeah 35 years ago and tech has changed a lot since then. Also almost lost isn't lost, still less people have died or environmental losses due to nuclear,compared to coal.
Nuclear tech has changed a lot to address safety - that's why its $$$$ expensive.
 

calypso

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In fact it was. Sulphur scrubbers were a contractual requirement for the World Bank loan to build Medupi. But Eskom just blew off actually building them. Despite the contract, they just didn't put them in, then signed a new contract promising to put them in. Multiple times. They have now committed to doing so by 2032(!) https://africanminingbrief.com/medu...ry-of-a-power-stations-missing-air-scrubbers/
It really seems like reinvesting into these old tech coal plants is just pissing money away. If you look at what some of the local IPP and renewable projects put together with little money (in Medupi terms), renewables are a bargain (effectively in wind turbines R20m = 1MW) compared to running the coal plants. Nuclear is great too but I feel that would just get lost in hidden and secret deals as its really hard to quantify what this costs, and whenever this happens locally, its exploited. A wind farm is making a big order from Vestas and having it installed. Yes, I am oversimplifying, but it just seems like a lost cause to keep investing in these coal plants when the money could be better used elsewhere.
 

friedpiggy

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What about solar/wind that is not tied to the grid, all it does is power the pumps to refill pumped storage. That alone would cut a lot of the shedding we have which is more often than not blamed on the need to refill pumped storage.
 

wingnut771

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What about solar/wind that is not tied to the grid, all it does is power the pumps to refill pumped storage. That alone would cut a lot of the shedding we have which is more often than not blamed on the need to refill pumped storage.
How many MW is all the pumped storage? Anyway, the same thing can happen if solar/wind is connected to the grid, and you don't have to build next to the pumped storage.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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Nuclear tech has changed a lot to address safety - that's why its $$$$ expensive.
Thats what they also said when they built Chernobyl. And also they said Fukushima was completely 100% safe. Fukushima will poison the ocean for more than 1000 years. It was said that it was so safe that it is impossible to fail. Look at Koeberg, you can tell me one more time how safe nuclear is today, but then I have to tell you talk nonsense because Koeberg is a massive disaster waiting to happen. Nuclear safety have to take into account human factors. Please tell me again how safe nuclear is, in the hands of the ANC.
 

wingnut771

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Thats what they also said when they built Chernobyl. And also they said Fukushima was completely 100% safe. Fukushima will poison the ocean for more than 1000 years. It was said that it was so safe that it is impossible to fail. Look at Koeberg, you can tell me one more time how safe nuclear is today, but then I have to tell you talk nonsense because Koeberg is a massive disaster waiting to happen. Nuclear safety have to take into account human factors. Please tell me again how safe nuclear is, in the hands of the ANC.
Yeah, 1 tsunami away from another Fukushima.
 

Benedict A55h0le

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Yeah, 1 tsunami away from another Fukushima.
We don`t even need a tsunami for Koeberg to go boom, a tsunami will do the trick yes but the containment building is cracked. ANC will make it go boom, might not even need an earthquake for that, ANC can do the damage on its own.
 

system32

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Actually makes the case for nuclear, as that's killed even less then wind and solar. Remember wind and solar don't run all the time and peaks are early morning and early evening when there is no sun.
Also batteries will cost a ...

Renewable pass Nuclear in ZA

Coal still dominates the South African energy mix whilst variable renewables surpassed nuclear energy contribution in 2020 by some margin.
see CSIR
 

Gordon_R

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