Eskom to charge solar users in South Africa to remain connected to the grid

Alexander the Straight said:
Here's a rough calculation to put things into perspective.

1994:
Cost per kwh electricity :10.32 cents
Cost per litre petrol : R1. 77

2024:
Cost per kwh (Durban) : R2.91
Cost per ltr petrol. : R20.98

Over 30yrs
Petrol price increase =1185 %
Electricity increase. = 2204 %

All things considered even. Electricity should cost around R1,58 per kwh if it had kept up to the same pace of inflation as petrol did.
It's nearly double that though
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Lol you are ruining the eskom shills' argument that "we don't have a benchmark" LMAO
 
quovadis said:
It's got nothing to do with sheep. Eskom is being unbundled to open up the market at least to some extent. Like most with multiple energy producers there's always a delivery charge and an energy charge. Eskom may not be as efficient as you like but I doubt you're getting R1/kwh even if they were.
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Eskom thanks you for your cooperation.
 
Swa said:
Don't think so.
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Pretty much. Still can't tell the difference between generation, transmission and distribution and how currently those are all performed by the same company for Eskom direct customers and how they need to split this to enable future competition?
Swa said:
Dude, did you read what I wrote? "Many people have replaced a portion of their energy usage with gas."
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That's a market response not an indication that they've priced themselves out of the market. Sheesh.
Swa said:
It doesn't matter to me or anyone. If i can supply it cheaper I will.
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Of course it matters. You need to cater for weather and season constraints not only in generation but also consumption.
Swa said:
That's where you're wrong. You're also paying for corruption and inefficiency set a communist philosophy. ONLY a free market can decide a real price.
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Here's a basic way... look at the cost of coal, the cost to transport it and then the overnight cost per kwh of a coal power station and if you get to R1 per kwH I would be amazed.
 
ProfA said:
We do have a benchmark. Pre 94 cost. Then add reasonable inflation keeping efficiency in mind.
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A benchmark also set by communist principles. As I stated in my example it might be our market can't supply electricity below R3/kWh (unlikely) or it might be 50c is the lowest we can go. I'm not an Eskom shill and hate them as much as much as the next load shedded guy but I'd rather the free market determine the price whatever it may be instead of what anyone thinks it should be.
 
Swa said:
A benchmark also set by communist principles. As I stated in my example it might be our market can't supply electricity below R3/kWh (unlikely) or it might be 50c is the lowest we can go. I'm not an Eskom shill and hate them as much as much as the next load shedded guy but I'd rather the free market determine the price whatever it may be instead of what anyone thinks it should be.
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Ok, please explain how this free market of yours come about in respect to Eskom directly?
 
quovadis said:
Pretty much. Still can't tell the difference between generation, transmission and distribution and how currently those are all performed by the same company for Eskom direct customers and how they need to split this to enable future competition?
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I can. The argument isn't about separate price components for those but about what those price components should be and how they should be recouped. You still don't get that.

quovadis said:
That's a market response not an indication that they've priced themselves out of the market. Sheesh.
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LOL. It's a market response that they've priced themselves out of the market.

quovadis said:
Of course it matters. You need to cater for weather and season constraints not only in generation but also consumption.
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WTF does that have to do with which is cheaper?

quovadis said:
Here's a basic way... look at the cost of coal, the cost to transport it and then the overnight cost per kwh of a coal power station and if you get to R1 per kwH I would be amazed.
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Ok, what if you don't transport it by truck but by train so none of it can also be "diverted"? What if you build a rooftop so the coal can't get wet? Just ideas but a free market will choose whatever is most cost effective with the least corruption. Cost based pricing is an economic fallacy.

Wanted to post something about deciding the cost of electricity but rather won't out of respect for the other posters who get this.

quovadis said:
Ok, please explain how this free market of yours come about in respect to Eskom directly?
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It's irrelevant as to it deciding the fair price of electricity.
 
The kak ANC country since 1994

US Petrol up = 268%
US Electricity up = 85%
US Median house income up = 144%
US Petrol price in 1994 = $0.29 per liter
So on your monthly salary you could buy = 9,271 liters of petrol a month


RSA Petrol up = 1185%
RSA Electricity up = 2204%
RSA Median house income up = 510%
RSA Petrol price in 1994 = R1.72 per liter
So on your monthly salary you could buy = 1,395 liters of petrol a month


Now you know why the Yanks drive big V8 cars!
 
ProfA said:
Lol you are ruining the eskom shills' argument that "we don't have a benchmark" LMAO
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I'm too idle and have work to do eish but a bit of googling, particularly on the World Bank related sites could produce some benchmarks. I say this as UNFCCC validation required for CDM projects and this has quite extensive costing. The WB were quite knowledgeable when I was involved and they predicted SA's pricing was too cheap at R0,12/kWh.
 
Swa said:
I can. The argument isn't about separate price components for those but about what those price components should be and how they should be recouped. You still don't get that.
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You've been arguing that it should only be a price per kwH for the last few days?!
Swa said:
LOL. It's a market response that they've priced themselves out of the market.
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Here's a clue "out of the market".
Swa said:
WTF does that have to do with which is cheaper?
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You've lost your train of thought. If you're debating market pricing then you need to ensure they're comparative.
Swa said:
Ok, what if you don't transport it by truck but by train so none of it can also be "diverted"? What if you build a rooftop so the coal can't get wet? Just ideas but a free market will choose whatever is most cost effective with the least corruption. Cost based pricing is an economic fallacy.

Wanted to post something about deciding the cost of electricity but rather won't out of respect for the other posters who get this.
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Still not 50c or R1 bud.
Swa said:
It's irrelevant as to it deciding the fair price of electricity.
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I didn't ask how it's relevant - I want you to explain how with this free market plays out if Swa-economics was for the next 10 years.
 
ProfA said:
Must admit, eskom has achieved a great thing amongst the sheep of South Africa. They have normalized made up charges. "Service/network" fees. Time of use. Capacity charges. All made up charges to make electricity more expensive. All accepted by the sheep.

Electricity should cost R1 per kwh. They would make stupid profits just from this simple solution. Everyone just needs to pay for it and eskom should start paying cost price for brooms and mops.
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At current SA retail solar panel pricing, it would take 3 years and 9 months for one kwh of electricity to cost less than R1.

After 20 years, it would cost about half that.
 
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quovadis said:
You've been arguing that it should only be a price per kwH for the last few days?!
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No I haven't. Go read for a bloody change.

quovadis said:
You've lost your train of thought. If you're debating market pricing then you need to ensure they're comparative.
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No such thing.

quovadis said:
Still not 50c or R1 bud.
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We don't know. Can't say one way or the other.

quovadis said:
I didn't ask how it's relevant - I want you to explain how with this free market plays out if Swa-economics was for the next 10 years.
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Nope, you're confusing one thing for the other, not understanding either argument.
 
The Trutherizer said:
Eskom shouldn't be concerned with this anymore. It's now with NTCSA, more than with Eskom. Surely. I mean there's still some sort of retail/wholesale division to be spun off if I'm not mistaken. But a connection is surely part of transmission.
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Actually the connection is part of the distribution. The transmission is between the supplier and the generator and has nothing to do with the user.
 
Swa said:
No I haven't. Go read for a bloody change.


No such thing.


We don't know. Can't say one way or the other.


Nope, you're confusing one thing for the other, not understanding either argument.
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Quality engagement /s
 
So not only did tax payers pay for the power station, we also get charged monthly to use it, then, when they find out how we can generate our own power then slap on fees to make it expensive if you don’t use their service. This has to be illegal, oh, and if you want to disconnect from the grid they charge you a whack for that too. Unbelievable.
 
neilberr said:
So not only did tax payers pay for the power station, we also get charged monthly to use it, then, when they find out how we can generate our own power then slap on fees to make it expensive if you don’t use their service. This has to be illegal, oh, and if you want to disconnect from the grid they charge you a whack for that too. Unbelievable.
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When you are desperate for loot and to keep looting, principals and fairness have no takers.
 
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