Eskom warns it may have to shut down 16,000MW after pollution exemptions declined

[Johnatan56]

Hence my question of why does Medupi get singled out but not Kusile.

Maybe because rated for higher emissions than they are, since can't go full tilt due to boiler issue?

Based on:

https://www.eskom.co.za/dataportal/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/Kusile-Emissions-Report-2020_12.pdf

I'm wondering if emissions are for full plant and not per unit, so because not enough units running they don't exceed targets?

@Jan @rpm, might be an interesting story.

Cleaner energy in SA is more expensive for SA consumers and comparing it with other better industrialized countries does not hold up. All our sht is getting imported, if we had mass production using local products and we could all buy locally then perhaps it might be true but look at any solar replacement for homes even at current Eskom prices you would have to utilize your Solar replacement for the next 5 to sometimes 10 years just to breakeven.

That is not a solution for the average person.

No, solar is way more efficient in RSA than most of the rest of the world, South Africa is also pretty big and has lots of places for high wind turbine CPF, renewable will definitely bring down the electricity price in South Africa.

 

[quovadis]

 

[wingnut771]

Hence my question of why does Medupi get singled out but not Kusile.

Less pollution from Kusile because it's always broken?

 

[PaulMurkin]

More threats and such from Eskom, to justify their 30% price hike

 

[system32]

Cleaner energy in SA is more expensive for SA consumers and comparing it with other better industrialized countries does not hold up. All our sht is getting imported, if we had mass production using local products and we could all buy locally then perhaps it might be true but look at any solar replacement for homes even at current Eskom prices you would have to utilize your Solar replacement for the next 5 to sometimes 10 years just to breakeven.

That is not a solution for the average person.

That's legacy.
So explain to me why new reipppp 6 costs less than coal?

 

[Lupus]

Utter nonsense. On average, renewables are the cheapest source of energy. The reason why most places that are more expensive have it, is that they often invested in it before viable, e.g. California, but the cost for anything new in solar or wind is way cheaper than any other alternative. Other reasons include that they're also building out grid infrastructure etc. (Germany).

Examples where it brought down the electricity price include South Australia, note when they invested, after renewable became viable.

Solar/wind is quick to build and cheap compared to alternatives, in 5 years if IPP set-up, you could probably manage to build a good 10-20GW, government just needs to properly set up competitive contracts, waive BEE and let international also compete.

South Australia tarrifs



Prices from Jacana Energy in the North



Power water Waste in Northern territories




So far it looks like South Australia is still the most expensive in the country, they were voted this in 2017 and it seems it's still the case. Sure some points it dropped to 20c an hour, some days. But on average it's still pricier and this is when they invested in Solar when it's new and fancy.
You're also not taking into account the ecological damage solar panels and batteries can cause nor the ones wind turbines can.
But hey you keep believing the sun and wind are the only answer.

 

[ToxicBunny]

Less pollution from Kusile because it's always broken?

Quite likely really...

But one would think these requests for exemptions will be done on "worst case scenario" type things for the exemption so would have been requested for Kusile as well.

 

[Johnatan56]

South Australia tarrifs

View attachment 1212530

Prices from Jacana Energy in the North

View attachment 1212532

Power water Waste in Northern territories

View attachment 1212534


So far it looks like South Australia is still the most expensive in the country, they were voted this in 2017 and it seems it's still the case. Sure some points it dropped to 20c an hour, some days. But on average it's still pricier and this is when they invested in Solar when it's new and fancy.
You're also not taking into account the ecological damage solar panels and batteries can cause nor the ones wind turbines can.
But hey you keep believing the sun and wind are the only answer.

You need to look at wholesale, and you need to look at when, as in the last 2 years.

And I am talking about it bringing down the prices vs rest of Australia where they did not go renewable, not that it is cheap.

Ecological damage is minimal vs coal, this is not a does no damage argument, it is a limitation and cost comparison.

 

[system32]

Medupi and Kusile do not have the required flue-gas desulfurisation equipment installed, which also goes against the terms of their world bank loan:

Eskom seeks to break terms of $3.75 billion World Bank loan to avoid spending on emission cuts | Business

Eskom is seeking to have the terms of a $3.75 billion World Bank loan changed to avoid spending money to cut emissions from one of its largest power plants.

www.news24.com

Show me the operating cost of solar/renewable, that's got to be the most ignorant thing I've seen on this forum (well today, you're competing with Nic and NarrowMind).

If solar/renewable is done on IPP model, there is no operating costs.
Eskom just pays for the kWh produced - the rates are decided upfront.
No sun - no kWh produced - no pay.
No wind - no kWh produced - no pay.
Broken - no kWh produced - no pay - not Eskom's to maintain as it's Independently owned.

 

[Johnatan56]

If solar/renewable is done on IPP model, there is no operating costs.
Eskom just pays for the kWh produced - the rates are decided upfront.
No sun - no kWh produced - no pay.
No wind - no kWh produced - no pay.
Broken - no kWh produced - no pay - not Eskom's to maintain as it's Independently owned.

I know, but Lupus is making stupid claims again that there are high operating costs of solar/wind, with solar being basically an engineer checking everything is in working order and someone once in a while cleaning panels, and wind turbine basically being the maintenance service check every 6 months. Trying to compare that to coal/nuclear as running cost, one must be mentally handicapped to think it's more.

 

[HartsockZA]

Don't get your way? load shedd

 

[Kawak]

It's meniltioned that this pollution kills 900 per year, over the past 11 years that's 9900 loves, over the next 9 will be a total of 18000 lives, charge everyone at Eskom for murder.

 

[Lupus]

I know, but Lupus is making stupid claims again that there are high operating costs of solar/wind, with solar being basically an engineer checking everything is in working order and someone once in a while cleaning panels, and wind turbine basically being the maintenance service check every 6 months. Trying to compare that to coal/nuclear as running cost, one must be mentally handicapped to think it's more.

So during that exact scenario what are they using to create power? Magic? Nuclear is costly on the initial install but it actually will eventually even out and become cheaper as it's always running there is no need to supplement it with expensive gas,coal,diesel,batteries or such. Remember solar and wind need the sun and wind and those don't always work, in those times there is either no power or there is something else generating it at a greater cost.
Hence why the consumer is still paying more in South Australia right now.

 

[grok]

It's meniltioned that this pollution kills 900 per year, over the past 11 years that's 9900 loves, over the next 9 will be a total of 18000 lives, charge everyone at Eskom for murder.

Why no lockdown for these deaths?

 

[BuckRogers]

I'm dreaming of a black Christmas...

 

[Kawak]

Why no lockdown for these deaths?

They will load shed for these

 

[justplain]

no, pull your heads and fingers out of your behinds ANC and simply open up the power generation market to private companies etc and oh look, the problem will go away.
Stop screwing everyone.

 

[Sensorei]

The rest of the world, even China some time ago switched to a combo of lower sulphur coal and installing desulfurisation systems for their Coal power stations.

What did SA do? Sweet f*** all. Only Kusile power station uses acceptable desulfurisation measures.

Typical ANC African planning...

 

[Johnatan56]

So during that exact scenario what are they using to create power? Magic? Nuclear is costly on the initial install but it actually will eventually even out and become cheaper as it's always running there is no need to supplement it with expensive gas,coal,diesel,batteries or such.

You'll need to give a source that nuclear is ever cheaper if construction, running and decommission costs than wind/solar. It does not beat the install costs of a blend of solar, wind and gas peakers/batteries. You also missed the fact that nuclear has a higher operating costs as well, namely what does it use to generate power.

Remember solar and wind need the sun and wind and those don't always work, in those times there is either no power or there is something else generating it at a greater cost.
Hence why the consumer is still paying more in South Australia right now.

No, you have no understanding of the history of power in South Australia and what actually makes up the prices.

Rise of SA renewables to deliver nation's cheapest wholesale electricity - InDaily

South Australia is expected to have the lowest average wholesale electricity prices in the country by early next year but an Adelaide energy expert says the savings are unlikely to be passed on to consumers in full.

indaily.com.au

Record levels of renewable energy drive down electricity prices across Australia

Power costs zero or negative for one-sixth of the September quarter, energy operator says

www.theguardian.com

And a good read explaining the entire situation of why renewable has become cheaper than fossil.

https://ourworldindata.org/cheap-renewables-growth

Note that's 2020 pricing, it's dropped even more in regards to renewables while coal is set to shoot up this year and next since most countries added emissions taxes.
That nuclear per MWh pricing includes existing btw, all those that have already been paid off in terms of construction and did not have all the new safety legislation etc. during construction.

I'm not going to bother replying in this thread anymore regarding the nonsense you post, already corrected and you'll just keep making baseless claims.

 

[PaulMurkin]

Don't get your way? load shedd

The South African way.
They can't burn things and toyi-toyi as they're an entity, so they loadshed...
Eskom loves punishing SA.