Eskom's R300-billion Medupi and Kusile woes

[wingnut771]

Remember that R450b is the construction cost.

You need to add:
- cost of coal
- cost of maintenance
- cost to environment
for the next 30 years.

These monsters eat coal at a huge rate and generate tons of "free" pollution (use atmosphere as a dump)

Suddenly Solar + Storage become cheap.

also got to factor in something exploding every 3 years.

 

[Corelli]

Then say say it will take another 5 years to fix at a cost to the tax payers, while they will not hold the contractors that stole soo much or did such terrible work accountable.

Honestly they may as well plough it down.

 

[Corelli]

also got to factor in something exploding every 3 years.

It was originally only to cost about R150 billion for both if I am not mistaken. The problem is they refused to use foreign project management teams but decided on local teams whom has never tackled something on this scaled and really wasnt equipped to do so. That mistake is solely in the hands of the government and Eskom.

 

[Corelli]

Dont laugh but there are many companies in the western cape that can generate far more power to the grid, but the city of Cape Town limits them to 1MW, whereas they can generate 15MW.

 

["D"]

How much FxCKING gravy does the gravy train need?!?!?!

 

[Sinbad]

How much FxCKING gravy does the gravy train need?!?!?!

MOAR

 

[Oldfut]

Dont laugh but there are many companies in the western cape that can generate far more power to the grid, but the city of Cape Town limits them to 1MW, whereas they can generate 15MW.

Just out of interest, what sort of firms in CoCT can generate more than 15MW over and above what they use; i.e. not co-generation?

Medupi, Kusile etc; every aspect seems to have flaws; design, project management and construction, much of it split into contracts with "suppliers" who had little or limited experience and/or capability to undertake the work (like Hitachi really). Eskom had long got rid of anyone who could critically evaluate the input from these "suppliers" effectively and many seem to have been appointed for reasons other than experience and competence (bribes, BEE etc). I also suspect that some of the international "suppliers" were aware of Eskom's technical and contractual weaknesses and ran financial rings around them (Black & Veatch, Parsons Brinckerhoff). I was told that even the original concept (6 x 800MW) was somewhat unique and it would have been better to use smaller units that were more commonly produced. Not even getting into coal details.

 

[chrisc]

Electricity storage - do not view this as batteries only

The liquid sodium plant in the Northern Cape is able to generate power right through the night, such is the reserve from the sodium heated by the sun during daylight. There is also water and rock heat storage

The R450bn or whatever it is could have solved this problem years ago

But the energy minister is fixated on coal and cannot think further

 

[Lupus]

Electricity storage - do not view this as batteries only

The liquid sodium plant in the Northern Cape is able to generate power right through the night, such is the reserve from the sodium heated by the sun during daylight. There is also water and rock heat storage

The R450bn or whatever it is could have solved this problem years ago

But the energy minister is fixated on coal and cannot think further

View attachment 1308884

You'd need 40 of those to get to one of the coal plants, so that is 40 000 hectares of land, kaxu one cost 860 million dollars in 2015. So 11 billion rand and it also doesn't provide through out the night.

 

[hj2k_x]

Yeah and all that storage will give the entire SA about 15 maybe 20 minutes of power, they are basically big UPS devices or they are used to regulate the voltage better.
Storage is hectically expensive right now, also those amounts you've mentioned are piddling amounts of power, you don't realise how much SA actually uses, I mean at night when everyone is sleeping there is still 20GW going.

Isn't your last sentence epr3cisely the problem, though? 20GW at night - that's not residential users. I read a while back that residential electricity usage is about 10% total consumption in SA. I can see that still being the case. If so, then residential solutions (as some have mentioned here) are not going to help at all.

 

[Lupus]

Isn't your last sentence epr3cisely the problem, though? 20GW at night - that's not residential users. I read a while back that residential electricity usage is about 10% total consumption in SA. I can see that still being the case. If so, then residential solutions (as some have mentioned here) are not going to help at all.

20% is residential, those big users would actually help a lot switching over to their own generation.

 

[R13...]

20% is residential, those big users would actually help a lot switching over to their own generation.

A report from 2016 shows 8% is residential.

 

[Lupus]

A report from 2016 shows 8% is residential.

2019 shows 19%

South Africa: electricity consumption by sector | Statista

As of 2019, the industry sector was the leading electricity consumer in South Africa, with up to 56 percent of the total consumption.

www.statista.com

So not sure which would be correct

 

[hj2k_x]

2019 shows 19%

South Africa: electricity consumption by sector | Statista

As of 2019, the industry sector was the leading electricity consumer in South Africa, with up to 56 percent of the total consumption.

www.statista.com

So not sure which would be correct

19% seems high.

All those smelters that run 24/7 must chow a lot of the power on their own.

Also, what do coal power stations run on when they are busy turning things into electricity? Other electricity? Presumably heat is the main power source there at least...

 

[R13...]

19% seems high.

All those smelters that run 24/7 must chow a lot of the power on their own.

Also, what do coal power stations run on when they are busy turning things into electricity? Other electricity? Presumably heat is the main power source there at least...

They use electricity like any industry.

 

[itareanlnotani]

Dont laugh but there are many companies in the western cape that can generate far more power to the grid, but the city of Cape Town limits them to 1MW, whereas they can generate 15MW.

NERSA not CoCT, although that limit has been raised to 100MW now.

They can apply to supply more, but it's a rather tedious and bureaucratic exercise.

 

[The_Right_Honourable_Brit]

NERSA not CoCT.

They can apply to supply more, but it's a rather tedious and bureaucratic exercise.

I thought the cap was lifted to 100MW?

 

[itareanlnotani]

I thought the cap was lifted to 100MW?

It has been lifted to 100MW now. CoCT needs a licence from NERSA if you want to feedback more.

Previously was 1MW, so that was a limit. Good and valid point though, have edited my post for clarity.

See https://www.capetown.gov.za/City-Co...tall-a-small-scale-embedded-generation-system


The authorisation process for embedded generation installations applies to small-scale embedded generation (SSEG) systems with a generation capacity smaller than 1 mega-volt ampere (MVA) and embedded generation (EG) systems with a generation capacity of more than 1MVA and less than 100MVA in properties within the City of Cape Town electricity supply area.

• If you want to install a system larger than 100MVA, proof of registration from the National Energy Regulator (NERSA) is required before we can consider authorisation. Special conditions over and above our requirements may also apply.

CoCT would likely need to add more equipment to take in 15MW feed though, costs for that would need engineering signoff from Cape Town.

 

[Oldfut]

It has been lifted to 100MW now. CoCT needs a licence from NERSA if you want to feedback more.

Previously was 1MW, so that was a limit. Good and valid point though, have edited my post for clarity.

See https://www.capetown.gov.za/City-Co...tall-a-small-scale-embedded-generation-system


The authorisation process for embedded generation installations applies to small-scale embedded generation (SSEG) systems with a generation capacity smaller than 1 mega-volt ampere (MVA) and embedded generation (EG) systems with a generation capacity of more than 1MVA and less than 100MVA in properties within the City of Cape Town electricity supply area.

• If you want to install a system larger than 100MVA, proof of registration from the National Energy Regulator (NERSA) is required before we can consider authorisation. Special conditions over and above our requirements may also apply.

CoCT would likely need to add more equipment to take in 15MW feed though, costs for that would need engineering signoff from Cape Town.

My take on these "authorisations" etc are that they are all 3rd world red tape, particularly for generation units in reasonably large urban areas. For sure I think you would need some load analysis for a 15MW generation unit to assess grid cable sizing and load factors, particularly if demand fluctuates through the day. But modern units can do all this adjustment automatically I understand. CT is well placed compared to some as it already has a substantial generation division running about 250MW I understand. More power to them!

 

[Danie_V]

Eskom are responsible. Along with the ANC, corrupt Eskom employees, contracting and design companies who worked on the projects. Those companies paid bribes to get the jobs and then cut corners to earn more profits because it seems the people charged with making sure the designs and construction were up to scratch also looked the other way or were incompetent to sign off on such shoddy work.

Not directly I think, as Eskom could well have employed external companies to do designs for them to go out on tender. That is very often the case when it comes to major IT projects, for example, as a power station is a major design. That is why I'm saying it would be really interesting to know who did the designs and let them be accountable and known.