European Elections Thread 2019

Hamish McPanji said:
A "hard" brexit is a no deal brexit. So wto rules
A "soft" brexit is a negotiated one. That's how I read it.
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Having spent way too much time following this, my understanding is that CU+SM/EEA/EFTA etc are all variations of "soft". No deal = hard Brexit without a withdrawal agreement.

He doesn't want to just walk away in October like the Brexit party and a lot of the conservatives do.
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Spot on. First prize for Corbyn is a hard Brexit, but with a proper withdrawal agreement in which the UK adheres to its commitments and international treaties it signed up to, and keeps economic damage to a minimum. I don't believe his customs union plan makes it "soft" though - nor do I think it's a good idea.
 
JayM said:
Having spent way too much time following this, my understanding is that CU+SM/EEA/EFTA etc are all variations of "soft". No deal = hard Brexit without a withdrawal agreement.



Spot on. First prize for Corbyn is a hard Brexit, but with a proper withdrawal agreement in which the UK adheres to its commitments and international treaties it signed up to, and keeps economic damage to a minimum. I don't believe his customs union plan makes it "soft" though - nor do I think it's a good idea.
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The problem is we don't really know what this guy's plan actually is.
 
Hamish McPanji said:
The problem is we don't really know what this guy's plan actually is.
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It is basically TM's withdrawal agreement with a permanent customs union on top of it, as well as commitments to worker's rights, environmental policy and a few other things.

At this point, Labour should just let the Tories implode both themselves and the economy. Then clean up in 2022 (without Corbyn at the helm).
 
For anyone who doubted Scottish intentions

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Hamish McPanji said:
The Brexit party has claimed mandate, without the majority. People are getting upset when that's actually mentioned to them.

It seems like they don't know what the European elections are for, or how to count
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I noticed someone on twitter had added up the extreme Brexit vote (Brexit Party and UKIP) versus the outright remain vote (libs, greens, snp, cymru and change) and the remain vote is more than the Brexit vote.

It was about 35% Brexit vs 40% remain.
 
What this highlights for me is the importance of a PR system for elections.

As much as I hate UKIP, they were robbed last time of representation at Westminster. They won the same % of the vote as the next 5 parties below them combined. But only won 1 seat, those parties won 75 seats.

The FPTP system is totally schit at representing people in many ways
 
dw... said:
I noticed someone on twitter had added up the extreme Brexit vote (Brexit Party and UKIP) versus the outright remain vote (libs, greens, snp, cymru and change) and the remain vote is more than the Brexit vote.

It was about 35% Brexit vs 40% remain.
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Yup. But if you factor in the other 2 parties (23.2%), you don't know exactly where they will fall tbh.

What is clear is the mandate the Brexit think they have doesn't exist



08186ba8fb6cf118047541401b6e7418.jpg


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48403131
 
JayM said:
There are so many...which ones want to Frexit/Grexit/Nexit etc?
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RN, Lega and Brexit are the main ones. Not entirely true though. Different aims

The Nexit parties didn't do as well this time
 
Hamish McPanji said:
What this highlights for me is the importance of a PR system for elections.

As much as I hate UKIP, they were robbed last time of representation at Westminster. They won the same % of the vote as the next 5 parties below them combined. But only won 1 seat, those parties won 75 seats.

The FPTP system is totally schit at representing people in many ways
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You need both IMO.

PR simply makes MPs the rubber stampers of party bosses. With a PR system, you might as well replace all MPs with a single member whose vote is representative of each party. That would save a few hundred million Rand/Euros a year.

The solution proposed in the Van Slabbert commission would be able to get around this by making sure that you have MPs accountable to people, not parties, whilst ensuring that proportionality is maintained.
 
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