Every Black Hole Contains a New Universe(again I know)

Geriatrix

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 22, 2005
Messages
6,554
http://www.insidescience.org/?q=content/every-black-hole-contains-new-universe/566
By:
Nikodem Poplawski, Inside Science Minds Guest Columnist

Inside Science Minds presents an ongoing series of guest columnists and personal perspectives presented by scientists, engineers, mathematicians, and others in the science community showcasing some of the most interesting ideas in science today.

(ISM) -- Our universe may exist inside a black hole. This may sound strange, but it could actually be the best explanation of how the universe began, and what we observe today. It's a theory that has been explored over the past few decades by a small group of physicists including myself.

Successful as it is, there are notable unsolved questions with the standard big bang theory, which suggests that the universe began as a seemingly impossible "singularity," an infinitely small point containing an infinitely high concentration of matter, expanding in size to what we observe today. The theory of inflation, a super-fast expansion of space proposed in recent decades, fills in many important details, such as why slight lumps in the concentration of matter in the early universe coalesced into large celestial bodies such as galaxies and clusters of galaxies.

But these theories leave major questions unresolved. For example: What started the big bang? What caused inflation to end? What is the source of the mysterious dark energy that is apparently causing the universe to speed up its expansion?

The idea that our universe is entirely contained within a black hole provides answers to these problems and many more. It eliminates the notion of physically impossible singularities in our universe. And it draws upon two central theories in physics.

Nikodem Poplawski displays a "tornado in a tube". The top bottle symbolizes a black hole, the connected necks represent a wormhole and the lower bottle symbolizes the growing universe on the just-formed other side of the wormhole.The first is general relativity, the modern theory of gravity. It describes the universe at the largest scales. Any event in the universe occurs as a point in space and time, or spacetime. A massive object such as the Sun distorts or "curves" spacetime, like a bowling ball sitting on a canvas. The Sun's gravitational dent alters the motion of Earth and the other planets orbiting it. The sun's pull of the planets appears to us as the force of gravity.

The second is quantum mechanics, which describes the universe at the smallest scales, such as the level of the atom. However, quantum mechanics and general relativity are currently separate theories; physicists have been striving to combine the two successfully into a single theory of "quantum gravity" to adequately describe important phenomena, including the behavior of subatomic particles in black holes.

A 1960s adaptation of general relativity, called the Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble theory of gravity, takes into account effects from quantum mechanics. It not only provides a step towards quantum gravity but also leads to an alternative picture of the universe. This variation of general relativity incorporates an important quantum property known as spin. Particles such as atoms and electrons possess spin, or the internal angular momentum that is analogous to a skater spinning on ice.

In this picture, spins in particles interact with spacetime and endow it with a property called "torsion." To understand torsion, imagine spacetime not as a two-dimensional canvas, but as a flexible, one-dimensional rod. Bending the rod corresponds to curving spacetime, and twisting the rod corresponds to spacetime torsion. If a rod is thin, you can bend it, but it's hard to see if it's twisted or not.

Spacetime torsion would only be significant, let alone noticeable, in the early universe or in black holes. In these extreme environments, spacetime torsion would manifest itself as a repulsive force that counters the attractive gravitational force coming from spacetime curvature. As in the standard version of general relativity, very massive stars end up collapsing into black holes: regions of space from which nothing, not even light, can escape.

Here is how torsion would play out in the beginning moments of our universe. Initially, the gravitational attraction from curved space would overcome torsion's repulsive forces, serving to collapse matter into smaller regions of space. But eventually torsion would become very strong and prevent matter from compressing into a point of infinite density; matter would reach a state of extremely large but finite density. As energy can be converted into mass, the immensely high gravitational energy in this extremely dense state would cause an intense production of particles, greatly increasing the mass inside the black hole.

The increasing numbers of particles with spin would result in higher levels of spacetime torsion. Therepulsive torsion would stop the collapse and would create a "big bounce" like a compressed beach ball that snaps outward. The rapid recoil after such a big bounce could be what has led to our expanding universe. The result of this recoil matches observations of the universe's shape, geometry, and distribution of mass.

In turn, the torsion mechanism suggests an astonishing scenario: every black hole would produce a new, baby universe inside. If that is true, then the first matter in our universe came from somewhere else. So our own universe could be the interior of a black hole existing in another universe. Just as we cannot see what is going on inside black holes in the cosmos, any observers in the parent universe could not see what is going on in ours.

The motion of matter through the black hole's boundary, called an "event horizon," would only happen in one direction, providing a direction of time that we perceive as moving forward. The arrow of time in our universe would therefore be inherited, through torsion, from the parent universe.

Torsion could also explain the observed imbalance between matter and antimatter in the universe. Because of torsion, matter would decay into familiar electrons and quarks, and antimatter would decay into "dark matter," a mysterious invisible form of matter that appears to account for a majority of matter in the universe.

Finally, torsion could be the source of "dark energy," a mysterious form of energy that permeates all of space and increases the rate of expansion of the universe. Geometry with torsion naturally produces a "cosmological constant," a sort of added-on outward force which is the simplest way to explain dark energy. Thus, the observed accelerating expansion of the universe may end up being the strongest evidence for torsion.

Torsion therefore provides a theoretical foundation for a scenario in which the interior of every black hole becomes a new universe. It also appears as a remedy to several major problems of current theory of gravity and cosmology. Physicists still need to combine the Einstein-Cartan-Sciama-Kibble theory fully with quantum mechanics into a quantum theory of gravity. While resolving some major questions, it raises new ones of its own. For example, what do we know about the parent universe and the black hole inside which our own universe resides? How many layers of parent universes would we have? How can we test that our universe lives in a black hole?

The last question can potentially be investigated: since all stars and thus black holes rotate, our universe would have inherited the parent black hole’s axis of rotation as a "preferred direction." There is some recently reported evidence from surveys of over 15,000 galaxies that in one hemisphere of the universe more spiral galaxies are "left-handed", or rotating clockwise, while in the other hemisphere more are "right-handed", or rotating counterclockwise. In any case, I believe that including torsion in geometry of spacetime is a right step towards a successful theory of cosmology.

Nikodem Poplawski is a theoretical physicist at Indiana University.
 

mercurial

MyBB Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
40,902
I've also wondered about this for years now. But this seems to just take a shortcut into finding an answer about the origins of our universe. There are many more questions that follow. Example, which universe/black hole was the first black hole and how did it get there? It all had to have started somewhere. Apart from that, it is enticingly mind blowing.
 

Kompete

Expert Member
Joined
Mar 29, 2005
Messages
1,878
I've also wondered about this for years now. But this seems to just take a shortcut into finding an answer about the origins of our universe. There are many more questions that follow. Example, which universe/black hole was the first black hole and how did it get there? It all had to have started somewhere. Apart from that, it is enticingly mind blowing.

Sometimes the simplest answers are the right ones. But who knows, its just an hypothesis at this stage until they can prove it

I actually like it for its simple elegance, just makes the whole universe+ seem more fluid and on-going.

On your question of "how did it get there? It all had to have started somewhere" I dont think necessarily so - depends how you think.
If you think linearly you may look for a start and end; but if u think circular then no start/end is necessary
 

Swa

Honorary Master
Joined
May 4, 2012
Messages
31,217
Unfortunately this still creates more questions that answers. Why is it behaving like a universe and not a squashed black hole? Black holes have an evaporating energy so it either has to lose mass (from where?) or gain mass (to where?). It still does not solve the anti-matter equation but instead creates another imbalance to solve. If it decayed into dark matter then it should still be the same mass and not 90% of the universe. Still seems more likely the simplest explanation is correct, the theory is wrong.
 

killadoob

Honorary Master
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
46,571
Awesome stuff, glad to see something other than the big bloody bang. It seems like it has become the accepted answer.

I doubt in our lifetime we will ever know though. When we find the technology to travel further than the moon the answers will come hopefully. The big bang theory will become the flat earth of our time.
 

Elimentals

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
10,819
Awesome stuff, glad to see something other than the big bloody bang. It seems like it has become the accepted answer.

I doubt in our lifetime we will ever know though. When we find the technology to travel further than the moon the answers will come hopefully. The big bang theory will become the flat earth of our time.

The problem is, that its looking back in time and space that doesn't exist. It is like watching a road vanish over a hill, we can see the straight path till it vanishes so we draw the line from what we know and observe, its not much but thats all we can do. I doubt technology will ever allow us to see the road on the other side of that hill, but what we can hope for, is to see other land-markings or lamp posts giving us a hint on where the road is, we just don't know what they suppose to look like yet but I am confident we will find them one day.

Well we better as current inflation theory leads us to the fact that the longer it takes to get the right answer the more we lose the opportunity to get it.

In that light: I see the Black hole theory as a guess on which way the road turned on the other side of the hill, so now we have to look for markings in that direction to tell us if its true.
 
Last edited:

mercurial

MyBB Legend
Joined
Jun 12, 2007
Messages
40,902
On your question of "how did it get there? It all had to have started somewhere" I dont think necessarily so - depends how you think.
If you think linearly you may look for a start and end; but if u think circular then no start/end is necessary

So you think the universe had no start? :confused: Everything starts somewhere.
 

Voicy

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 19, 2007
Messages
11,565
Sometimes the simplest answers are the right ones. But who knows, its just an hypothesis at this stage until they can prove it

I actually like it for its simple elegance, just makes the whole universe+ seem more fluid and on-going.

On your question of "how did it get there? It all had to have started somewhere" I dont think necessarily so - depends how you think.
If you think linearly you may look for a start and end; but if u think circular then no start/end is necessary

So you think the universe had no start? :confused: Everything starts somewhere.

Occum's razor sure cuts deep. :p

3 dimensional thinking limits us severely - yet trying to think outside of it is like trying to explain Fourier transfers to grade 5's. They will develop the capacity to understand it soon enough, but not just yet.

What I find equally interesting is the "what if" part of our history, despite never looking back at my own life with "what if's". We went from the first flight in 1903 to countless spaceflights and the WMAP map of the earliest universe in 2003.

Now that's our technological advancement in a mere century...imagine how far we'd be right now if we didn't suffer & stagnate through 1000 years of the Middle/Dark ages before reaching the age of discovery in the 15th century.

In 100 years we transformed the world...where would be we now if we started 1000 years earlier?
 

Arthur

Honorary Master
Joined
Aug 7, 2003
Messages
26,879
Silly nonsense, really. This notion has most cosmologists chuckling and almost all trained philosophers suppressing a snigger.

(Don't bother trying to remind me of the history of ideas / science - I'm quite familiar with that turf. The fundamental problem is that by definition we could never know. If we could then we're not talking other universes. The word 'universe' actually means something.)
 
Last edited:

Ekstasis

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 21, 2010
Messages
13,206
So if a universe is inside a black hole....in what does a black hole exist?....inside another universe?
 

Elimentals

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
10,819
Silly nonsense, really. This notion has most cosmologists chuckling and almost all trained philosophers suppressing a snigger.

(Don't bother trying to remind me of the history of ideas / science - I'm quite familiar with that turf. The fundamental problem is that by definition we could never know. If we could then we're not talking other universes. The word 'universe' actually means something.)

Still a man made word that was made up with the knowledge at that time. Oh and if you use that as a base for debate proof one can the simply state that the word Multiverse actually mean something as well.

I am not saying that there is such a thing as a multiverse or even if there is such a thing as a boundary to our Universe. We use math for this one based on observation, for all we know the current universe turns in on itself.

I do find it funny that when it comes to emotions and actions, religious people are the 1st to claim that we should not apply human limits and lack of understanding but when it comes to the universe they do exactly the same. Time after all is a man made concept and is only measured as unidirectional for matter in general, its not the "law" as proven when broken down to its quantum state. Time moves in every direction for quantum particles, hell it gets so warped that there is even a theory that every single electron is the exact same electron throughout the universe.

If you remove the time aspect for your deity as he claims in the bible that he is not bound by time you will realize that nothing is impossible, and putting limits on what or even how he created is just removing the omi part from omnipotent. Does the universe or multiverse or even infinite loop black holes make him any less powerful?

I guess we venturing into PD territory and I would love to actually debate this aspect but I fear my lack of communication skills would limit my ability to bring my true thought on this across.
 
Last edited:

Elimentals

Honorary Master
Joined
Dec 11, 2010
Messages
10,819
Time moves in every direction for quantum particles, hell it gets so warped that there is even a theory that every single electron is the exact same electron throughout the universe.

Just to add if you really wanna jump into the rabbit hole you should go read some of the books from John Archibald Wheeler The man that is responsible for the word black hole and things like the atomic bomb.

Also http://www.nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1965/feynman-lecture.html is a great read on the matter.
 
Top