Every Black Hole Contains a New Universe(again I know)

[Geriatrix]

+1 Thread is being derailed.

I think a theist vs atheist thread would be interesting. As long as it doesn't devolve into: hurr I'm an atheist and you have make believe friends. And: hurr I'm a theist and circular logic ftw.

There are countless examples of those in the philly section. And they all seem to be recursive parodies of each other. It's so boring.

 

[Geriatrix]

Now back to the thread.
Can someone please try and elaborate this torsion mechanism for me, I'm having trouble going through all it's implications.

 

[Unhappy438]

Now back to the thread.
Can someone please try and elaborate this torsion mechanism for me, I'm having trouble going through all it's implications.

Have you read up on the Einstein-Cartan theory?

 

[Geriatrix]

Have you read up on the Einstein-Cartan theory?

Vaguely

 

[OrbitalDawn]

When one ponders the universe, or the possibility of a multiverse, or universes within universes, size is one thing strikes me. The ludicrous scale of things we're talking about. Always makes me think of this excerpt out of The Dark Tower by Stephen King:

"The greatest mystery the universe offers is not life but size. Size encompasses life, and the Tower encompasses size. The child, who is most at home with wonder, says: Daddy, what is above the sky? And the father says: The darkness of space. The child: What is beyond space? The father: The galaxy. The child: Beyond the galaxy? The father: Another galaxy. The child: Beyond the other galaxies? The father: No one knows.

"You see? Size defeats us. For the fish, the lake in which he lives is the universe. What does the fish think when he is jerked up by the mouth through the silver limits of existence and into a new universe where the air drowns him and the light is blue madness? Where huge bipeds with no gills stuff it into a suffocating box and cover it with wet weeds to die?

"Or one might take the tip of the pencil and magnify it. One reaches the point where a stunning realization strikes home: The pencil tip is not solid; it is composed of atoms which whirl and revolve like a trillion demon planets. What seems solid to us is actually only a loose net held together by gravity. Viewed at their actual size, the distances between these atoms might become league, gulfs, aeons. The atoms themselves are composed of nuclei and revolving protons and electrons. One may step down further to subatomic particles. And then to what? Tachyons? Nothing? Of course not. Everything in the universe denies nothing; to suggest an ending is the one absurdity.

"If you fell outward to the limit of the universe, would you find a board fence and signs reading DEAD END? No. You might find something hard and rounded, as the chick must see the egg from the inside. And if you should peck through the shell (or find a door), what great and torrential light might shine through your opening at the end of space? Might you look through and discover our entire universe is but part of one atom on a blade of grass? Might you be forced to think that by burning a twig you incinerate an eternity of eternities? That existence rises not to one infinite but to an infinity of them?

"Perhaps you saw what place our universe plays in the scheme of things - as no more than an atom in a blade of grass. Could it be that everything we can perceive, from the microscopic virus to the distant Horsehead Nebula, is contained in one blade of grass that may have existed for only a single season in an alien time-flow? What if that blade should be cut off by a scythe? When it begins to die, would the rot seep into our universe and our own lives, turning everthing yellow and brown and desiccated? Perhaps it's already begun to happen. We say the world has moved on; maybe we really mean that it has begun to dry up.

"Think how small such a concept of things make us, gunslinger! If a God watches over it all, does He actually mete out justice for such a race of gnats? Does His eye see the sparrow fall when the sparrow is less than a speck of hydrogen floating disconnected in the depth of space? And if He does see... what must the nature of such a God be? Where does He live? How is it possible to live beyond infinity?

"Imagine the sand of the Mohaine Desert, which you crossed to find me, and imagine a trillion universes - not worlds but universes - encapsulated in each grain of that desert; and within each universe an infinity of others. We tower over these universes from our pitiful grass vantage point; with one swing of your boot you may knock a billion billion worlds flying off into darkness, a chain never to be completed.

"Size, gunslinger... size."

 

[Unhappy438]

Vaguely

Ok so read up on that and make sure you understand torsion, link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_tensor . If you wish to further understand it i have a link to a book lying around somewhere, its 1000+ pages but well worth the read.

On another note i find it bizarre that certain members can completely discredit this based on nothing really. The quality of this forums Science section has dropped drastically.

 

[Nick333]

Ok so read up on that and make sure you understand torsion, link here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsion_tensor . If you wish to further understand it i have a link to a book lying around somewhere, its 1000+ pages but well worth the read.

On another note i find it bizarre that certain members can completely discredit this based on nothing really. The quality of this forums Science section has dropped drastically.

I don't that it was that great to start with. The creationists always feel the need to weigh in.

 

[Swa]

I don't that it was that great to start with. The creationists always feel the need to weigh in.

Not to mention the other religious folks.

 

[eXisor]

Back on topic for a second....

If this theory is fact, then our universe is not in the perfect matter/antimatter balance we think it is. (It seems to be asking for a lot to say that black holes only swallow chunks of matter when it can also get the associated chunk of antimatter). Since that goes against everything we've observed so far, I'll not be surprised when this theory is junked.
.

 

[Elimentals]

Back on topic for a second....

If this theory is fact, then our universe is not in the perfect matter/antimatter balance we think it is. (It seems to be asking for a lot to say that black holes only swallow chunks of matter when it can also get the associated chunk of antimatter). Since that goes against everything we've observed so far, I'll not be surprised when this theory is junked.
.

Well that is just it, there is no balance in the matter anti-matter ratio in this cosmos. Matter is clearly winning.

 

[Geriatrix]

Well that is just it, there is no balance in the matter anti-matter ratio in this cosmos. Matter is clearly winning.

Yeah it's quite a big missing puzzle piece in cosmology; 'What's with the lack of anti-matter?'

 

[Swa]

Personally I like the cosmic egg story. We just have to figure out what the splitting of the egg was. I think that the matter is in this universe and the anti-matter in another.

 

[isie]

Yeah it's quite a big missing puzzle piece in cosmology; 'What's with the lack of anti-matter?'

after the big bang both matter and antimatter were created, but the ratio of matter was slightly more something like for every billion atoms of antimatter there was a billion and 1 atoms of matter. Matter and antimater anihalted each other until only the extra ration of matter remained and that litle left over is all matter we today in our univers

 

[Elimentals]

after the big bang both matter and antimatter were created, but the ratio of matter was slightly more something like for every billion atoms of antimatter there was a billion and 1 atoms of matter. Matter and antimater anihalted each other until only the extra ration of matter remained and that litle left over is all matter we today in our univers

Problem is that LHC shows that for every matter particle there is an anti matter particle so we have no clue if above is true and if so why?

In short it does not correspond to test results.

 

[Geriatrix]

after the big bang both matter and antimatter were created, but the ratio of matter was slightly more something like for every billion atoms of antimatter there was a billion and 1 atoms of matter. Matter and antimater anihalted each other until only the extra ration of matter remained and that litle left over is all matter we today in our univers

And therein lays the kicker. Why?

Problem is that LHC shows that for every matter particle there is an anti matter particle so we have no clue if above is true and if so why?

In short it does not correspond to test results.

Yep.

 

[isie]

Problem is that LHC shows that for every matter particle there is an anti matter particle so we have no clue if above is true and if so why?

In short it does not correspond to test results.

acording to a recent expierent i think it was KEK in japan, they noticed a slight disecrpency in the decay rate of certain antimater particles to its matter equivalent, if this is true it may mean that the actual ratio of matter and antimater was equal but matter decayed slower then some antimater so antimater particles were destroyed before actualy being anihalted by matter. answering the question why was there more matter.

Still all theory though

 

[Elimentals]

acording to a recent expierent i think it was KEK in japan, they noticed a slight disecrpency in the decay rate of certain antimater particles to its matter equivalent, if this is true it may mean that the actual ratio of matter and antimater was equal but matter decayed slower then some antimater so antimater particles were destroyed before actualy being anihalted by matter. answering the question why was there more matter.

Still all theory though

Hmmm source?

I would love to read up on that.

 

[Swa]

after the big bang both matter and antimatter were created, but the ratio of matter was slightly more something like for every billion atoms of antimatter there was a billion and 1 atoms of matter. Matter and antimater anihalted each other until only the extra ration of matter remained and that litle left over is all matter we today in our univers

Indications are actually that only matter was created. The anti-matter observed in our universe is believed to be created by high energy particle collisions and cosmic rays.

 

[isie]

Hmmm source?

I would love to read up on that.

working from memory , but will google to see if i can get an article

 

[Elimentals]

Indications are actually that only matter was created. The anti-matter observed in our universe is believed to be created by high energy particle collisions and cosmic rays.

HUH?

Where did you get that?