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Ex-president PW Botha dies
- Thread starter rpm
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BTTB
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DigitalSoldier
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President Thabo Mbeki will attend the funeral of PW Botha, a former state president, in George tomorrow. Botha died last week at home in Die Anker near Wildernes in the Western Cape. Barbara, Botha's wife, found him dead in bed.
Never saw that coming
Never saw that coming
BTTB
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Me neither.
Can't find the link- but Justice Malala's article in this weeek's Sunday Times was spot on. We're so busy forgiving that we have forgotten what this man was responsible for.
I think that it is a disgrace that we are flying the flag at half-mast and that we have offered this man a state funeral.
It is more than he deserves.
I think that it is a disgrace that we are flying the flag at half-mast and that we have offered this man a state funeral.
It is more than he deserves.
DigitalSoldier
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Just goes to show our president got a heart if he is not doing it for some other reasons.
surface
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im surprised Thabo is available, he is usually gallivanting around Africa sorting out everyone else's problems.
BTTB
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The thought did occur to me.
Perhaps Thabo likes the Garden Route?
A couple of years back he and his entourage booked out the whole resort at Lake Pleasant (Groenvlei) about 2km on the Knysna side of Sedgefield.
The Wilderness is only 16km from Sedgefield.
Imagine the Security Arrangements?
Hope all enjoy their stay. Lovely part of the world.
Nah, I'm pretty sure that's not it. That article isn't familiar, and I'm sure I'd recognise Malala's article.
- Actually, just found a copy of the Sunday Times here, and that's definitely not the article. Wish I could post a link.
surface
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I suffer from twitchy finger syndrome, is this the one then?
http://www.sundaytimes.co.za/PrintEdition/News/Article.aspx?id=310481
"as a country we tend to rush to equate the abundance of forgiveness and reconciliation with the quest for truth."
(whats with Sunday times web edition, sometimes they dont credit authors)
That's the one!
And that exactly the phrase I was looking for.
/me bows to raoul's google-fu
And that exactly the phrase I was looking for.
This week, as light rain fell on most parts of South Africa, the flag above the Union Buildings flew forlornly at half-mast. We are in mourning, it said. One of our leaders is dead.
What a cruel irony. What an insult to truth and history. The gesture illustrates one of our greatest weaknesses: as a country we tend to rush to equate the abundance of forgiveness and reconciliation with the quest for truth.
What a cruel irony. What an insult to truth and history. The gesture illustrates one of our greatest weaknesses: as a country we tend to rush to equate the abundance of forgiveness and reconciliation with the quest for truth.
/me bows to raoul's google-fu
In the ’80s South Africa had the third-highest judicial execution rate in the world. Between 1980 and July 1989, 1109 people were hanged in South Africa.
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Hearing of his death, I was reminded of the movie Apocalypse Now, Francis Ford Coppola’s adaptation of Joseph Conrad’s classic Heart of Darkness. In it, the renegade Colonel Walter E Kurtz says: “Horror. Horror has a face ... and you must make a friend of horror. Horror and moral terror are your friends.”
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Trade union activity was highly curtailed — hundreds of mineworkers were shot by police while they were holding meetings. In truth, Botha was not reforming. He was reacting to what was already on the ground. The pass laws, for example, were no longer being enforced because the jails were full.
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For all the talk of his being a reformer, there was one inalienable human right that Botha could not grant a black person: the right to vote in free and fair elections on the basis of one person, one vote.
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As he told his interviewer, Cliff Saunders, earlier this year, his belief was that our country would have “gone down the drain” if the vote had been given to blacks in the ’60s and ’70s. He died believing that we were indeed “going down the drain” because blacks were in charge.-
I find these 2 paragraphs interesting contrast:
What a cruel irony. What an insult to truth and history. The gesture illustrates one of our greatest weaknesses: as a country we tend to rush to equate the abundance of forgiveness and reconciliation with the quest for truth.
and
This is how I remember PW Botha. He is up there with Hitler.
Did botha proscribe genocide? Or do we have defunct religious beliefs leading to a political atrocity?
atrocity:
Appalling or atrocious condition, quality, or behavior; monstrousness.
An appalling or atrocious act, situation, or object, especially an act of unusual or illegal cruelty inflicted by an armed force on civilians or prisoners.
Placing hitler and botha in the same sentence is a slippery slope, and I would be wary of any who do. Right up there with Hitler? Mmmmm. There is a difference between genocide and political stupidity/moral bankruptness that results in unforgivable deaths. (But a policy of genocide, not.)
It is protocol (though I salute the anc for their handling.) And I notice it takes Cosatu a week to come up with their diatribe; gee, did they first have to think about it?
PW 'on same level as Hitler' Nov 07 06
True sadly, we are bending over backwards for the so called reconciliation and mostly for people who have don't regret nor seek forgiveness for their actions.
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tit 4 tat.
no leader was or is perfect and most certainly not in this country.
the old **** has been replaced with new **** is the way i see it.
anyway... rip mr botha i am sure your legacy will be remembered for a while.
Maybe so, but if there ever was a national debate in need of Godwin'ning, this is it.
It has become too easy in the rush to forgive and to reconcile, to forget what happened and the injuries that we have done ourselves.
Vrotappel
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Whose version of history? Let the guy RIP.
surface
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I read it in the context as in these 2 paragraphs, which are one after the other.
<I>British journalist Victoria Brittain wrote: “These were crimes whose results will live on into generations who have long forgotten the names of those responsible for them. This crime against humanity — as racial segregation has been recognised — stands along with Nazi Germany in the record of shame of the 20th century.”
This is how I remember PW Botha. He is up there with Hitler.</I>
Comparison is made in terms of crime against humanity as far as racial segregation is concerned. He is not comparing ‘quantity’ or any other ‘type’ of atrocity. Also he is hardly comparing as a ‘Judge’ even though after a certain level of crime committed by a person, even judgment is same, ‘up there’, in the jail. Also, I reckon that writer is also fed up of ‘selective amnesia’ & ‘extolling non-existent virtues’. All this writer is asking for is a fair & accurate assessment of history.