Ex-president PW Botha dies

gboy

Expert Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2005
Messages
1,610
The thought did occur to me. :)
Perhaps Thabo likes the Garden Route?
A couple of years back he and his entourage booked out the whole resort at Lake Pleasant (Groenvlei) about 2km on the Knysna side of Sedgefield.
The Wilderness is only 16km from Sedgefield.

Imagine the Security Arrangements?
Hope all enjoy their stay. Lovely part of the world.

week before last he had a 2 day meeting at the pezula golf resort. They had security so tight The had to check my car before i could go to our property on the estate
 

kilo39

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
5,425
I read it in the context as in these 2 paragraphs, which are one after the other.
<I>British journalist Victoria Brittain wrote: “These were crimes whose results will live on into generations who have long forgotten the names of those responsible for them. This crime against humanity — as racial segregation has been recognised — stands along with Nazi Germany in the record of shame of the 20th century.”
This is how I remember PW Botha. He is up there with Hitler.</I>

Comparison is made in terms of crime against humanity as far as racial segregation is concerned. He is not comparing ‘quantity’ or any other ‘type’ of atrocity. Also he is hardly comparing as a ‘Judge’ even though after a certain level of crime committed by a person, even judgment is same, ‘up there’, in the jail. Also, I reckon that writer is also fed up of ‘selective amnesia’ & ‘extolling non-existent virtues’. All this writer is asking for is a fair & accurate assessment of history.
Let's get a few things straight about "a fair and accurate assessment of history.":

1. The article in question: Flags fly at half mast, but let the truth be told: A monster is dead by (I assume as uncredited) Justice Malala. Does the author not have the balls to come out and say these things himself, instead relying on a quoted piece by an extreme (white?) left wing female journalist? Is the author not capable of making these judgements himself? Would he rather hide behind her skirts than have the intellectual grasp and mental bravery to call things as they are, as he sees them. It is noted he does not have this intellectual bravery, and as a journalist on the ground(?) in this country it aptly shows the lack of faculty and his moral cowardice in a subject that should be closest to his heart and mental reasoning.

2. Victoria Brittain: while her moral crusade is exemplary we should acknowledge that moral crusades (especially british ones) have fiscal rewards, and the opportunity for great career advancement and personal name. There is nothing so viral as a punchy headline or paragraph especially when those lines or paragraphs sell newspapers, advance careers, and are not personally accountable (as noted by Justice Malala above, who in his moral turpitude does not have the bravery to come out and say these things himself.)

3. For measure when anybody mentions the word 'genocide' (or hitler in this context) I would take such as the following into account:

The racism and segregation that played out in the Rwanda cataclysm of 1994, where there were very different conditions and outcomes between whites and blacks, continues to be played out today. The telling and re-telling of the Rwanda ‘genocide’ story by its very nature revolves around a system of institutionalized segregation. Powerful whites in powerful ‘gatekeeper’ positions in the West hold a virtual monopoly over the information. Alongside of them are the select voices of non-whites who validate the predominant discourse. These ‘experts’ include Alison des Forges; Roméo Dallaire; Philip Gourevitch; Victoria Brittain; Samantha Power; Mahmood Mamdani; and many, many others.

“They believe Alison des Forges because she is white and they don’t believe me because I am black and I don’t speak English so well,” says Jean-Marie Higiro. “She is the expert, even though she was an observer and I was a participant.”

HOTEL RWANDA
Hollywood and the Holocaust in Central Africa

4. While I am busy trashing Victoria Brittain here are some other tidbits to keep in mind:

Khalifa Bazelya is not new on the block. In August 1997 David Shayler, the renegade MI5 spy, linked Bazelya with payments into Victoria Brittain's bank account. But at that time Bazelya was described only as the former head of the Libyan Interest Section in London. He was not fingered as a spy, far less implicated in a murder.
[source]

and:
After eight months of talks in Geneva between Angola, Cuba, South Africa and the United States, 1988 is drawing to a close with the distinct possibility that Pretoria may have been forced to end ten years of procrastination and redraw its regional strategy in such a way as to allow for an independent Namibia, with a complete change in the power base of its unita ally in Angola.
[source]

So which is it? Genocide alongside hitler or a political atrocity masquerading as communism?

I just read it again, it is such a lucid & truth seeking article.

"We feel no joy at his passing. We seek neither revenge nor rancour. All we ask is that the history be accurate, be true, and be fair. " - Justice Malala

Get your facts straight and your moral compass in order before speaking of a "lucid truth seeking article."

Where is the truth? And if an author cannot put his own name to a contentious quote then I suggest he STFU and anybody who pretends his same moral order to do the same.
 

Alan

Honorary Master
Joined
Sep 30, 2005
Messages
62,475
Interesting letter I read in the "The Witness:sick: ".

Our deepest sympathies to the family of P. W. Botha. We fail to realise this great leader’s words were actually prophetic. He mentioned that corruption and moral degeneration would bring this country down if not ruled in the only way he knew.

IWe have to admit that since our “freedom” we’ve all become virtual prisoners. Crime, murder next door, raping of babies, cops in corruption scandals and pornographic videos in police stations have increased in leaps and bounds. No one is safe.

Maybe P. W. has blood on his hands, but our ministers are steeped in the blood of the thousands of innocent lives lost daily, black and white together.

Let us prove P W. wrong. Can we save this beautiful country from hurtling downhill, fire corrupt officials, replace them with people of integrity, forget colour —corruption and crime are colour blind — and employ on the basis of pure integrity, absolute qualification and a genuine compassion for the upgrading of our fellow human beings? We may have to recruit from heaven.

http://www.witness.co.za/default.asp?myAction=detail&myRef=47944&myCat=let

I presume this is from an Indian lady going by her name.

What are your thoughts?
 

kilo39

Executive Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2005
Messages
5,425
Interesting letter I read in the "The Witness:sick: ".

Our deepest sympathies to the family of P. W. Botha. We fail to realise this great leader’s words were actually prophetic. He mentioned that corruption and moral degeneration would bring this country down if not ruled in the only way he knew.

IWe have to admit that since our “freedom” we’ve all become virtual prisoners. Crime, murder next door, raping of babies, cops in corruption scandals and pornographic videos in police stations have increased in leaps and bounds. No one is safe.

Maybe P. W. has blood on his hands, but our ministers are steeped in the blood of the thousands of innocent lives lost daily, black and white together.

Let us prove P W. wrong. Can we save this beautiful country from hurtling downhill, fire corrupt officials, replace them with people of integrity, forget colour —corruption and crime are colour blind — and employ on the basis of pure integrity, absolute qualification and a genuine compassion for the upgrading of our fellow human beings? We may have to recruit from heaven.

http://www.witness.co.za/default.asp?myAction=detail&myRef=47944&myCat=let

I presume this is from an Indian lady going by her name.

What are your thoughts?
Does 2 equally morally corrupt governments equal a new SA? Well that depends on who's counting, and how they count. Anybody who claims "in the only way he knew" at the same time as "recruit from heaven" has their own moral dilemma, ie, this person does not qualify themselves (but would rather recruit from heaven.)

Fundamentally (and in so many past posts) what we are missing is the message: where is the message, and what is it? This governments failure to deliver a clear message in one crisp soundbite is the greatest failure of this country - exemplified by the 'letter' above: confused, damning, but with no moral fibre "we will need to recruit from heaven" (ie, don't pick on me.)

What happened to straightup moral code and a belief in convictions "no, we'll have to recruit from heaven."

If that isn't apologetic then I don't know what is. More turpitude leading to diaspora: the sum of the south african way.
 

jontyB

Expert Member
Joined
Aug 4, 2006
Messages
2,101
I don't wanna be funny, but seriously guys, the dude is dead. let him RIP.
 
Top