Exchange is said 2 be "Fibre Optic" what can i do?

zipcode

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Jun 22, 2004
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Hey guys,

I'm having a problem here!
We are stuck with a analogue leased line at the moment, which is very VERY slow [:(!] !

We used to have ADSL when we still lived up in Constantia (Cape Town).
Now we moved to Newlands, and seem to have a problem getting ADSL!
When i test our home number on the Telkom site, it says our exchange supports ADSL, but when we put in the order, and they do their tests, they come back saying our exchange runs fibre optic cables. and ADSL doesnt support or (or sumin) [V]

I've heard that there is some kind of converter you can use to convert signals so it is possible to run ADSL over Fibre optic cables.

IS this true? what do i need to do to get ADSL?

Thanks

Z|pC0de
 

podo

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Well, this question requires a two part answer. [:)]

Before I begin, I should clarify something though, which Telkom never seem to be able to explain to users, since the people working in the call centers just don't know how all of this works.

In almost all exchanges around the country, the exchange is connected to Telkom's backbone via fiber optic cables. This is not what is causing your line not to be compatible.

At the exchange, the DSLAM (DSL Acess Multiplexer) unit converts your traffic from analogue modulation to ethernet traffic, which then travels further on Telkom's network as EoA (ethernet over ATM) traffic. EoA traffic can traverse fiber just fine, so once your traffic has managed to reach the DSLAM, fiber optics are no problem. It is just that there must be an end to end copper connection between your modem and the DSLAM.

Now, the problem that's causing you not to be able to get service is not that the exchange is connected by fiber optics, but that there is no end to end copper cable running from your location to the exchange.

The reason for this is that line distribution point in your area is not an analogue mini-switch connected to the exchange via more analogue cable, but a digital switch connected to the exchange via fiber optic cables. These digital DPs have their advantages in that you need only one fiber optic cable from the DP to the exchange, as opposed to thick copper wire with many strands, which is normally required.

There is, however, a disadvantage. These digital DPs accept incoming analogue copper connections from the surrounding properties, but instead of switching the analogue transmission on to another copper wire running to the exchange, the call is compressed and digitized inside the DP and sent on to the exchange via fiber.

From the point of view of the exchange, this is a good thing, because the exchange no longer needs to perform the analogue to digital conversion before sending the call on to the backbone network, but from the point of view of an ADSL modem, this is a disaster.

That's because, as the analogue calls from properties served by the DP are converted to digital, the high frequencies used by ADSL connections are cut out, never reaching the exchange or the DSLAM unit connected to the exchange. This is discussed at length in the first part of the answer below.

Just as a point of interest, you can be assured that you will always have analogue copper wire at least to your local area DP. This is because no conventional telephones, voice band modems or even ADSL modems can be connected directly to fiber optic cables. In cases where your area is served by a digital DP, the analogue to digital conversion will always happen at the DP.

So, when Telkom tell you that you can not have ADSL because your exchange is fiber optic, what they actually mean is that you can not have ADSL because your DP is connected to the exchange via fiber optics.

This will also explain why the internet test will list your number as having ADSL support. The exchange in your area most likely does have the DSLAM unit required to support ADSL. Furthermore, it is possible that not all DPs in the area are digital, thus, those people lucky enough to be serviced by the old analogue mini-switch DPs will be able to get ADSL, but not those serviced by digital DPs connected via fiber optics.

Now, having gotten that clarification out of the way, we move on to the two part answer:

First off, it's impossible for ADSL to work over fiber optic cables since they use a completely different method of transmission to carry the signal. ADSL modems use very high frequency discreet multi-tone modulation on analogue cables. In other words, they send sound waves via analogue electrical pulses at frequencies way above that which would be needed by voice calls.

That's why you can use your line for voice calls and ADSL internet at the same time as long as you have a splitter or filter. The voice calls generally use frequencies between 300Hz and 3KHz. ADSL connection make use of frequencies between 20KHz and 1MHz. The splitter or filter devides these two frequency bands so that both kinds of devices can share the line without interference from the other device.

Fiber optic cables use light pulses created by low frequency lasers in small optical fiber "channels" inside the cable. The low frequency laser light can travel over huge distances and can also be extended by repeaters on the cable. The light pulses are used to directly signify digital data, as ones and zeros, as all digital transmission systems do.

Voice calls traveling over fiber optic networks are generally digitized by special filtering equipment at the exchange end and transmitted in digital form over the fiber optic cable. This is not possible for ADSL because of the very high sound frequencies it uses.

Generally, the algorithms used to compress voice call data will not handle any sound frequency above 3KHz as it is considered unneeded for voice calls. Voice band modems will also not use frequencies above 3KHz for compatibility reasons, so all of these will work just fine when the call is compressed, digitized and sent over fiber.

In the case of ADSL modulations, the equipment compressing and digitizing the call will definitely loose all of the modulation. Thus, your ADSL connection will dissapear at the point where it must be routed over a fiber optic connection.

Now, from the first part of my answer and the clarification above, it would be very obvious that you are unlucky enough to find yourself within the service area of one of these digital DPs and can not have ADSL, not just yet, anyway.

On to the second part of my answer:

The new digital DPs connected to exchanges via fiber optics are very popular with telephone operators, since they generally cost less and are easier to maintain than the older analogue mini-switch technology. For that reason, there has been a push to develop ways in which customers in the service area of these DPs can still receive ADSL service.

The solution is called a mini-DSLAM. This is a DSLAM unit which is much smaller than the DSLAM unit you might find at the local exchange. A normal DSLAM might have anything from 30 to 2000 ports, depending on the population density and service penetration in the area the DSLAM must service.

A mini-DSLAM will typically have no more than four or eight ports available. These mini-DSLAM units are not connected to exchanges, as with the traditional DSLAM, but are installed directly onto a digitally operated and connected distribution point.

Thus, instead of your DSLAM being at the exchange, it is at the DP. In this way, your ADSL signal can travel over the short distance of copper wire to the DP and the mini-DSLAM connected to it. Then, at the DP, it can be converted into EoA traffic by the mini-DSLAM and then sent on to the backbone network via the exchange, over fiber optic cable, without any problem.

With one of these in place, any DP connected to the exchange via fiber optics can still offer ADSL service directly to users within its coverage area.

Now, here is the problem you face:

Currently, you do not have direct copper connectivity to the exchange, where the nearest DSLAM is located. Thus, you can not have ADSL.

There is something you can install which will fix the problem, the mini-DSLAM, but this is not something that <b>you</b> can install, it can only be installed by Telkom.

Telkom have mentioned that they were testing mini-DSLAMs in the past, but the last mention of it from any Telkom representative was in late 2003.

The only way for you to be able to get ADSL in your area would be to convince Telkom to install one of these units in your local DP. This will not be easy though, since DSLAM equipment of any kind is supposedly quite expensive. For them to be interested in doing this for you, you will have to get your neighbours to sign on too.

Typically, a DP will service six to eight properties located around it. Sometimes, this can be higher, but is unlikely in sparsely populated areas.

Telkom will not consider it worth while to install a mini-DSLAM in your DP if you are in a sparsely populated area, or any area where interest in ADSL is low. For it to be profitable for them to install such a unit in your DP, you will have to get at least four neighbours to also demand ADSL service. If you can, you might be able to convince them to install one for your DP and your ADSL withdrawl symptoms should come to and end shortly.

That is, however, if they are willing, or able, to install it at all. Otherwise, I'm afraid you are stuck. [:(]

Willie Viljoen
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Adaptive Web Development
 

mbs

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Well put, PODO - methinks you're an educator at heart: if not, you've missed your calling, bro! One point which additionally needs to be mentioned - the endemic theft of copper cable in certain areas has apparently hastened the rollout of mini-DSLAM infrastructure. It's quite possible that ZIP is in one of these areas...
 

zipcode

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Jun 22, 2004
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hey guys,

Thanks for your quick response :&gt;
I will bring this to telkom's attention since we put in another order for ADSL ;)
I can tell you now, There are more houses closeby together here in Newlands in comparison to Constantia.
eg. Constantia 2000 sq. meters on average per plot. Here in Newlands,
more like averging +/-500 sq. meters.
Do you think i will have to convince the people in my road/Area to sign up for ADSL? or just to sign saying they would apply for it in future, theres no other good reason :/


But anyways, lemme know what you think :&gt;

Thanks for your help so far though, [:D]

Nico
 

CrazyMadMan

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Sep 29, 2003
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ADSL sucks why would anyone else want this

Fantasy is what people want, reality is what they need.
 

Karnaugh

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zipcode, demand they install a 512K fibre then for the same price as they refuse to provide your needs which is in breach of their licence terms. [:)]

- Colin Alston
colin at alston dot za dot org

"Getting traffic shaping right is easy and can be summed up in one word: Dont." -- George Barnett
 

podo

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<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by mbs</i>
<br />Well put, PODO - methinks you're an educator at heart: if not, you've missed your calling, bro! One point which additionally needs to be mentioned - the endemic theft of copper cable in certain areas has apparently hastened the rollout of mini-DSLAM infrastructure. It's quite possible that ZIP is in one of these areas...
<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">

mbs,

Very valid point, just a small clarification. The units that Telkom have been rolling out in areas with rampant copper cable theft or where copper cable can not reach, are not mini-DSLAMs, but digital DPs, which are connected to the exchanges via fiber optics.

In order for DSL to work over these, a mini-DSLAM must be added to the digital DP so that DSLAM tasks can be performed before the medium changes from copper to fiber. Sadly, Telkom are presently rolling out the digital DPs without mini-DSLAMs and do not seem to have any immediate plans to install mini-DSLAMs.

I should also say that zipcode is still quite lucky in that his area got a fiber connected digital DP and not a wireless connected digital DP.

In areas where cable theft and damage to cables is so severe that die hard criminals even try to steal fiber optic cable, Telkom have taken to the very unsavory policy of installing digital DPs connected via wireless.

These DPs connect to the backbone network via a wireless link based on a modified version of the 802.11 standard. In other words, Telkom are connecting DPs in very remote or crime ridden areas to their network over the same ISM radio band that we use to connect our laptops to our ADSL lines.

These DPs are the pits. Not only is ADSL a total impossibility with these, as a mini-DSLAM will work with fiber, but not with wireless, but even normal voice band traffic suffers.

Because of the limited bandwidth in the ISM band, calls originating from within the service area of such a DP will be compressed to sub standard sound quality. Voice calls will often distort or break up in much the same way as a GSM cellular phone. Voice band data transmissions, like an internet connection from an analogue modem or a fax transmission, will rarely work above 9600bps, in some cases, 2400bps is the maximum.

These DPs are common in farmland and areas with extreme equipment theft problems. If you're on a farm, your options are normally a 9600bps analogue connection over a long distance phone call, or satelite internet.

The mini-DSLAMs do work very well with fiber though, so if zipcode can convince Telkom to install one in the fiber linked DP in his area, he should be surfing away in no time.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 

mbs

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Thanx for the heads-up, PODO - didn't know exactly what Telkom were actually deploying. It's great that there's someone on this forum with detailed insight into Telkom's machinations - goes a long way towards ensuring public awareness of their piss-poor service and the reasons behind it...

ZIP - when I last visited Cape Town (some years back, I must admit), I recall the Newlands/Wynberg area being a thriving, bustling business area, particularly around the Main Road area. If Telkrap have installed digital DPs to service that area (and yours), and have consequently disadvantaged you by not installing a mini-DSLAM, you should make as much noise as possible. Your idea of getting others in your area to effectively sign a petition of intended use, is potentially a good one. Before you go this route, however, talk to their Marketing people about it, via your closest Service Centre - sometimes its useful to use the clout their Marketing people have over the Technical types, to get things done (even though their Marketing people are probably equally responsible for the trials and tribulations we have with Telkrap, the main <i>sondebokke</i> being their bean counters)...
 

asmith

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I am not so sure Telkom would install fibre optics for 8 houses. I think the number is likley much higher. I know of one such case with about 100 houses and 50 offices, and another with about 80 houses.
Telkom did indicate the first one I mentioned may get ADSL in October.
 

podo

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Apr 16, 2004
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288
asmith,

A DP generally won't handle much more than that, remember, DPs are the "green boxes" that provide "last mile" network access to surrounding properties. A DP rarely has more than eight connections running into it.

Those are sometimes connected by fiber, especially where the DP is in a very remote area where copper can not reach, or in cases where cable theft has forced Telkom to switch the DP from copper to fiber or even wireless.

This is not uncommon in areas with rough terrain or which until recently had no telephone coverage. When expanding its network, Telkom generally does not like to make use of copper any more, since it is more costly to maintain than fiber optics and creates a soft target for copper cable theft.

So, when Telkom expands to cover a newly developed or rural area, fiber will probably be what it uses, regardless of the number of houses in the area.

Remember, the great thing about fiber is that it is scalabel. You don't have to install a 512-strand cable that can handle 155MBps or thousands of phone calls and costs a fortune for a single DP. A small fiber optic cable, perhaps with 4 or 16 strands will be more than sufficient, which can sometimes be even cheaper than laying copper cable to the same DP.

The digital DPs themselves are also cheaper than the old analogue mini-switches. An analogue DP uses switching of electrical current over physical circuits, which requires mechanical parts, particularly solenoids. These parts require regular maintenance and can lead to disruptions when they break down.

The digital DP is simply a multi-channel analogue to digital converter and a computer. No physical circuit switching needs to be done, so there's no moving parts and less chance of breakage.

Thus, Telkom will favour using fiber, in any area, except in extreme cases where fiber is not an option, in which case they will switch to the much cheaper but much less reliable wireless option.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 

Boesman

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Jun 25, 2004
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Thank you podo for your very informative posts.
Something is not clear to me though. I live in Bokkemanskloof, Hout Bay, Cape Town. Now we have a similar response from Telkom upon application for ADSL service - fiber optic lines, etc.
My first question is: the entire estate is affected by this, perhaps 200 houses, so does that mean they have multiple DP's in the area, each serving 8 odd houses? This is surprising - there is one very visible "green box" near the estate entrance but I haven't noticed more around - could this be the DP and could it be serving many more houses than the 8 you mention.

Second question: the fact that my house is still connected to the DP via copper is not entirely transparent to my gadgets. For instance, I can dial ok from my home pc using a Sportster analogue modem. But if I try and use the built-in modem in my HP/Compaq NX7000 laptop, it squeals about being connected to a digital exchange. I understand from the device documentation that this check is to protect the modem from being connected to an ISDN line by accident. No, I do not have an ISDN line (as far as I know - at least I'm not paying for one according to my Telkom bill).
Could the device be affected by the fact that the DP is connected to the exchange digitally? How does this work [?]


-) Boesman (-
 

podo

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Boesman,

Well, since the digital DPs are merely ADCs connected to processors, I can see no limit to the amount of lines you could service with a digital DP.

If you are living in a cluster developed area, perhaps a town house complex, where there would be a very large amount of houses in a small area, it could very well be that Telkom are using a single DP to cover the entire area.

The limit for the old analogue DPs is a very small amount of lines, but they could conceivably connect any number of lines to a digital DP if they so desired and could find the appropriate equipment.

It would certainly make sence in terms of cost, if they were able to do this, to use a single DP with many ports instead of many DPs with fewer ports.

I could be wrong about the figure of eight. In fact, when writing the previous posts, I never considered that the low limit I have in mind is only imposed on analogue DPs since the digital DP does not need to perform physical circuit switching.

Getting to the question of equipment being able to detect this, I can merely speculate. I'll make an educated guess though, as I have seen strange problems that could be related to this in the past.

The most striking one is that in areas where the exchange is equipped with a DSLAM and thus upgraded to handle ADSL, some software based internal modems, specifically those made by Lucent and Connexant begin to behave eratically.

These modems will in many cases be unable to establish any form of connection, unless they are operated at extremely low speeds like 9600bps or 14400bps. In one case, installing a new lightning protector at a location where a modem was showing these symptoms, completely disabled the modem. The only way to get that machine back on the internet was to equip it with an external modem.

My hypothesis is that, perhaps, the power of modulations generated by internal modems is less than that generated by an external modem. I also assert that the equipment used to receive a modulation from the other side in an external modem is much more sensitive and thus far superior to that used in an internal modem.

Thus, I believe that with the addition of DSLAMs to an exchange, the transmission power that can be achieved through the exchange is diminished. While external modems might be able to compensate for this because they have more power, or are more stable, internal modems would struggle to maintain a connection at high speed, since their already weak signal is being further attenuated when the signal must traverse the DSLAM at the exchange.

In the case I noted above, where an internal modem ceased to function completely after the introduction of a lightning protector, I believe the combination of the attenuation caused by the lightning protector and the equipment at the exchange, in concert, caused the signal to be attenuated to a point where a connection can not be sustained.

As I stated before, an external modem at the same location, even with the lightning protector plugged in, shows no difficulty in connecting or maintaining a connection at all. Incidentally, I also tested another modem, also made by Lucent, at the same location, with the same dishartning results.

It could be that your internal modem has been designed to detect attenuation or even the complete loss of signal on higher frequencies, which would be caused by your phone call being compressed and digitised, and is refusing to operate because of this.

The Sportster, which is an external unit and is thus designed to operate at exactly the right signalling power, and also maintains this signalling power throughout the call, will probably not feel the effects of this attenuation so badly, and in the case of high frequency signal loss, will simply re-negotiate the connection at a slightly lower speed, compensating for the signal loss.

On a side note, if you do live in a cluster development and find no joy from trying to get Telkom to install a mini-DSLAM in your DP, you could try to provide internet access for yourself.

If you could get enough residents to sign up, you could feasibly purchase an ATM leased line from Telkom, and an internet connection from a top tier ISP, with sufficient bandwidth to service your entire complex.

You could then distribute access to residents via a wireless network, or even ethernet cables, if you are able to get planning permission for this from the body corporate or landlord.

You should be able to compete with Telkom in terms of pricing, while still offering a reasonable permanent internet access service to all the residents, without making a loss on the cost of the outgoing connection.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 

asmith

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I am not sure where the talk of DPs came from. In all cases I know of Telkom has said there is a sub-exchange envolved. The word DP was not used. If they need more lines at a DP they would just use a 1+4 or a 1+8 or what ever it is these days to multiplex multiple voice channels down a single copper pair.
 

podo

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asmith,

DPs, or distribution points, are the units that switch phone calls from a small local area to the exchange. Since an exchange will generally serve a large area, up to 25 square kilometers or more in size, it would be simply impossible and very expensive to lay individual copper circuits from the exchange to each individual customer.

Instead, copper, or fiber optic lines, are installed from the exchange to the distribution points. These should be everywhere, in fact, walking in any area, you should find one at least once on every block. It can be easily identified, just look for a large green box, usually attached to a telephone mast.

These units act as very small exchanges, switching individual calls from within their coverage areas on to the single connection running to the main exchange servicing the area.

Sub-exchanges are probably not DPs, as even Telkom's own technical staff will refer to a DP by no other name. I have heard them use the term quite a few times, the technicians needed to get to it when I installed an analogue leased line some time ago, and again when I got ADSL.

Sub-exchanges are probably the "satellite" exchanges that will be installed in very densely populated areas. In some areas, it is simply impossible for a single exchange to service all customers in the area. In such cases, more exchanges will be connected to the main exchange and configured to serve numbers on the same prefix. Think of it as connecting two or more ethernet switches together, but for phone network perposes.

This is also not the same as multiplexing. Telkom do employ multiplexing, but definitely not at the point in the network infrastructure that is under discussion. Deploying multiplexing instead of connecting the lines through a DP would make communications almost impossible in densely populated areas.

Multiplexing is used in cases where a single household wants more than one phone line, especially if the distance from the building to the nearest DP is great and would require too large an investment in copper for Telkom to make, or where there simply isn't any connection space left on the DP.

Multiplexing two lines within the same household is not uncommon, but is still annoying, as it degrades the quality of voice calls and impedes data transmissions over the line.

Getting back to the original issue, what needs to be done by Telkom is simple. In all areas where digitally connected DPs are installed within the coverage area of an ADSL enabled exchange, Telkom should equip these DPs with mini-DSLAMs, to be able to provide ADSL service to all users within the exchange.

Willie Viljoen
Web Developer

Adaptive Web Development
 
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