EXCLUSIVE: Cronin lifts veil on new draft expropriation law

konfab

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By holding unused and unproductive land, you limit the amount of land available for productive purposes and mathematically increase land prices, travelling distances and other things.

It's economics 101, less of a product, higher price.
No credits for partial answers.

And in order for that demand to happen, people actually have to be interested in the area. If everyone in the area is speculatively holding on for land, no development happens and the prices go down. All people who are "speculating" are doing is setting the price of the land for what it is actually worth to develop.
They are also paying a large opportunity cost in terms of lost revenue by not developing said land, if there is indeed demand for the land, as well as if they do actually make money on that land, they will get hammered by CGT.

You are also missing out on the other side of the equation, people who do badly at speculation. And statistically, given predicting the future is actually rather difficult, most people who do speculate on property end up severely losing money.
 

Temujin

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classic example: hong kong
:D Was actually typing a response using that as example of what happens when a government gets to decide who can do what on their private land... but decided its really not worth the effort, peeps and mindsets are set. If I buy a piece of ground, and decide to use it for the long term study of how grass grows over decades when not being monitored, thats my decision. The key being unproductive, unused land... takng used and productive land and making it unused and unproductive is whats harmful to the populations, and sadly, thats exactly what ewc does
 

f2wohf

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No credits for partial answers.

And in order for that demand to happen, people actually have to be interested in the area. If everyone in the area is speculatively holding on for land, no development happens and the prices go down. All people who are "speculating" are doing is setting the price of the land for what it is actually worth to develop.
They are also paying a large opportunity cost in terms of lost revenue by not developing said land, if there is indeed demand for the land, as well as if they do actually make money on that land, they will get hammered by CGT.

You are also missing out on the other side of the equation, people who do badly at speculation. And statistically, given predicting the future is actually rather difficult, most people who do speculate on property end up severely losing money.
Well I actually know a guy holding empty plots in Hyde Park, he accumulates properties in the same block each time one sells to make a complex.

It's 5 years + you have unused land and empty houses on super prime land. There is no opportunity cost, he can sell it at more than he bought it at any point in time.

It's just a lazy, abusive and unproductive use of capital. That's part of the spatial development of any major city and should be forbidden. Even NYC transforms vacant land in social housing.

I won't convince you, the right of one fekker to harm thousands of people is definitely something more important to you than regulating the market and having a better society.

Have a good day.
 

f2wohf

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thats exactly what ewc does
That's funny, you can see the future! Do you have a crystal ball?

Nobody even knows what EWC IS so how can you know what it will BE.

You <----------------------------------------------------> Feels <---------------------------------------------------------------------------> Real
 

f2wohf

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:D Was actually typing a response using that as example of what happens when a government gets to decide who can do what on their private land...
BTW you missed that. Every Government in the world dictates what you can do on your private land.

By the way, you are already dictated what you can do or not with your land. You cannot open an office park, a petrol station or a mall in your garden, you can only build x% of the surface and x stories.
You also cannot do noise after 10pm, mine, store nuclear waste, do missile testings, store chemical products, do a race track, use too much water.

Should I find 100 other things you cannot do? You cannot do it because it's harmful, unused land is harmful too and probably has more societal impact that noise pollution for example.
 

Temujin

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That's funny, you can see the future! Do you have a crystal ball?

Nobody even knows what EWC IS so how can you know what it will BE.

You <----------------------------------------------------> Feels <---------------------------------------------------------------------------> Real
Willing buyer willing seller currently turns productive land to dust. You think somehow its going to magically remain productive now thats its stolen instead of paid for? Sure... I see you're celebrating the legalisation of pot already;)
 

f2wohf

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Willing buyer willing seller currently turns productive land to dust. You think somehow its going to magically remain productive now thats its stolen instead of paid for? Sure... I see you're celebrating the legalisation of pot already;)
We are speaking of unproductive and unused land...

Worst case scenario, it remains the same: unproductive and unused. :ROFL:
 

eg2505

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I think this is a bad idea, made worse by the ANC, (big surprise)

nowhere in the world did EWC ever work out right,

I mean look at Russia after communism died out,

a few people became super wealthy, and the majority stayed poor.
 

Temujin

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We are speaking of unproductive and unused land, smartie...

Worst case scenario, it remains the same: unproductive and unused. :ROFL:
Exactly... now go back and read what I wrote before your 'smartie' comment and responses above re feels and ****, you may see something in there re 'key being unproductive unused';)
 

f2wohf

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Exactly... now go back and read what I wrote before your 'smartie' comment and responses above re feels and ****, you may see something in there re 'key being unproductive unused';)
There is a land claims court, explain to them that your land is not unproductive then. I would deem it unproductive if I was a judge there (and also send you to a mental institution for watching grass growing).
 

f2wohf

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I think this is a bad idea, made worse by the ANC, (big surprise)

nowhere in the world did EWC ever work out right,

I mean look at Russia after communism died out,

a few people became super wealthy, and the majority stayed poor.
It worked pretty well when the Romans conquered Europe. /s

Have you not read the article or do you not understand that this will affect only an infinitesimal amount of properties and be negligible? It's certainly not a land reform.

abandoned buildings, unutilised land, commercial property held unproductively and purely for speculative purposes, underutilised property owned by the state, and f land farmed by labour tenants with an absentee titleholder.
 

Temujin

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There is a land claims court, explain to them that your land is not unproductive then. I would deem it unproductive if I was a judge there.
I would never have expected anything more from you
 

eg2505

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It worked pretty well when the Romans conquered Europe. /s

Have you not read the article or do you not understand that this will affect only an infinitesimal amount of properties and be negligible? It's certainly not a land reform.
didnt see that bit, but yes, its land reform lite....
 

konfab

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I won't convince you, the right of one fekker to harm thousands of people is definitely something more important to you than regulating the market and having a better society.
Property bought in a voluntary transaction cannot harm people.

It's just a lazy, abusive and unproductive use of capital. That's part of the spatial development of any major city and should be forbidden. Even NYC transforms vacant land in social housing.
Working very well, helping the poor. No possible abuse of power will ever happen. Property rights are only there to serve the rich.
Eminent domain abuse has reared its ugly head in East Harlem. As Ginger Adams Otis reports in the New York Daily News, city officials plan to seize a family-owned dry cleaning business and then hand the forcibly vacated land to a wealthy private developer.

Damon Bae, whose parents opened the Fancy Cleaners business after immigrating to the United States from Korea in 1981, told the Daily News that "the city has offered my family about 30 cents on the dollar on the market value for what our three lots are worth—that's not enough to buy anything comparable in East Harlem today....The city's working so hard to meet the developer's timeline; meanwhile, we're trying to stay in business."

According to city officials, Bae's property is "blighted," the condition of severe disrepair required to trigger a taking under state eminent domain law. Yet as Bae told the Daily News, "the only 'blight' was in the [city-owned] vacant lots the city allowed to sit empty" nearby. In other words, the local government created the very conditions that it is now using as a pretext for seizing the Bae family's property.
https://reason.com/blog/2018/01/11/new-york-city-unleashes-eminent-domain-a

Bottom line is that the people who best know how to use their capital is the owner of the capital. This is the undisputed fact in the matter.
 

konfab

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It worked pretty well when the Romans conquered Europe. /s

Have you not read the article or do you not understand that this will affect only an infinitesimal amount of properties and be negligible? It's certainly not a land reform.
Don't worry you silly people, it is only a small number of Jews who will loose their shops. After all they are not being productive with their land to the cause of the national plan.
 

f2wohf

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Property bought in a voluntary transaction cannot harm people.
Because increased travelling distances, more infrastructure to build, more pollution due to the travel, more expensive property prices artificially propped up affect nobody (apart from the society as a whole). :sneaky:


Working very well, helping the poor. No possible abuse of power will ever happen. Property rights are only there to serve the rich.

https://reason.com/blog/2018/01/11/new-york-city-unleashes-eminent-domain-a
https://reason.com/blog/2018/01/11/new-york-city-unleashes-eminent-domain-a

The usual anecdotal evidence...

Bottom line is that the people who best know how to use their capital is the owner of the capital. This is the undisputed fact in the matter.
That seemed to work well for Enron, Lehmann Brothers or Steinhoff...

It's a very disputed fact in economics actually.
 

Temujin

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There is a land claims court, explain to them that your land is not unproductive then. I would deem it unproductive if I was a judge there (and also send you to a mental institution for watching grass growing).
Missed your edit... again, got it wrong... not a long post, yet somehow wrong
"how grass grows over decades when not being monitored"

Besides that, about to be a large industry here for it, if going by usa stats, larger than smoking and drinking, but hey, expropriate all you want:p
 

f2wohf

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Don't worry you silly people, it is only a small number of Jews who will loose their shops. After all they are not being productive with their land to the cause of the national plan.
Ah Godwin's law. Where you could not get more irrelevant...
 

DreamKing

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:D Was actually typing a response using that as example of what happens when a government gets to decide who can do what on their private land... but decided its really not worth the effort, peeps and mindsets are set. If I buy a piece of ground, and decide to use it for the long term study of how grass grows over decades when not being monitored, thats my decision. The key being unproductive, unused land... takng used and productive land and making it unused and unproductive is whats harmful to the populations, and sadly, thats exactly what ewc does
no, that is not.

you are wasting the limited resources, for that reason, many countries banned this behaviour long time ago.

may be you don't aware of, but that is very reasonable.
 

konfab

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That seemed to work well for Enron, Lehmann Brothers or Steinhoff....
Perfect examples of how trust is needed to create meaningful economic growth. When you betray that trust, you get liquidated by the people who own you.

It's a very disputed fact in economics actually.
Being disputed by the likes of Julius Malema is like claiming Darwinism is a disputed fact because of some evangelical nutjob.

China only started being prosperous when they started giving their citizens more freedom to spend their own money.
 
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